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+--- Thread: Arena balance: Red vs Blu (/showthread.php?tid=1267)
Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Loqutus - 08-29-2008
http://steampowered.com/status/tf2/tf2_stats.php
It's interesting to note that during the past week, Red team has won arena_well about 70% of the time... can anyone think of a proper reason for that?
Do the trains only go one way, or both ways? What's not symmetrical or even?
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Eschatos - 08-29-2008
Red is just better than the losers on Blu team.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Geoff - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 11:29 AM)Eschatos link Wrote: Red is just better than the losers on Blu team.
communists
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - CaffeinePowered - 08-29-2008
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Ianki - 08-29-2008
Red is an empowering color.
Also, i'm quite often on blue.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Vongore - 08-29-2008
i think all arena Maps are symmetrical. I guerss Red is just better tha blue
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Dave - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 11:31 AM)CaffeinePowered link Wrote: Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - CaffeinePowered - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 11:46 AM)Dave link Wrote: [quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34800#msg34800 date=1220027486]no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
[/quote]
Except that unlike other maps you don't pick your team in arena, its random assignment. Random team assignments on balanced maps mean that across thousands of samples it should even out with some single digit margin of error.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - ToiletDuck - 08-29-2008
they already discussed something like this with Unreal Tournament
something something red is intimidating something something
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Dave - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 11:49 AM)CaffeinePowered link Wrote: [quote author=Dave link=topic=1290.msg34810#msg34810 date=1220028385]no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34800#msg34800 date=1220027486]
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
[/quote]
Except that unlike other maps you don't pick your team in arena, its random assignment. Random team assignments on balanced maps mean that across thousands of samples it should even out with some single digit margin of error.
[/quote]
nope wont even out since there are allways better players than others the system doesnt measure skill, maybe the better players have randomly endedup in red more often, with the 5 wins to scramble the teams system, it wouldnt take to many teams to be good to get up to 5 wins.
the system promotes good players staying on, and i know it also gives both teams the chance of getting better players, but by chance red is simply gettign better teams, its random choice, it happens.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - jorge - 08-29-2008
Terrorists win.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - copulatingduck - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:03 PM)Dave link Wrote: [quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34811#msg34811 date=1220028557]no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
[quote author=Dave link=topic=1290.msg34810#msg34810 date=1220028385]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34800#msg34800 date=1220027486]
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
[/quote]
Except that unlike other maps you don't pick your team in arena, its random assignment. Random team assignments on balanced maps mean that across thousands of samples it should even out with some single digit margin of error.
[/quote]
nope wont even out since there are allways better players than others the system doesnt measure skill, maybe the better players have randomly endedup in red more often, with the 5 wins to scramble the teams system, it wouldnt take to many teams to be good to get up to 5 wins.
the system promotes good players staying on, and i know it also gives both teams the chance of getting better players, but by chance red is simply gettign better teams, its random choice, it happens.
[/quote]
Wut?
-1 if you don't get the reference, you stupid liberal arts majors. Â :-*
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - A. Crow - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:03 PM)Dave link Wrote: [quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34811#msg34811 date=1220028557]no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
[quote author=Dave link=topic=1290.msg34810#msg34810 date=1220028385]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34800#msg34800 date=1220027486]
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
[/quote]
Except that unlike other maps you don't pick your team in arena, its random assignment. Random team assignments on balanced maps mean that across thousands of samples it should even out with some single digit margin of error.
[/quote]
nope wont even out since there are allways better players than others the system doesnt measure skill, maybe the better players have randomly endedup in red more often, with the 5 wins to scramble the teams system, it wouldnt take to many teams to be good to get up to 5 wins.
the system promotes good players staying on, and i know it also gives both teams the chance of getting better players, but by chance red is simply gettign better teams, its random choice, it happens.
[/quote]
/instantiate physics degree
No Dave. In fact, if it were completely random chance like you're attributing this to, summing up over all servers over all rounds on that one map would actually be pretty damn close to even. The world is a Gaussian. Populations are Gaussians.  YOU are a Gaussian. Data like this points to something being wrong with the map.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Mission Difficult - 08-29-2008
I think it might have more to do with human emotion. I tend to see people joining red first as a preference. Maybe the people who want to get red, but get blu are bummed out and don't play as well.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - copulatingduck - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:32 PM)Mission Difficult link Wrote: I think it might have more to do with human emotion. I tend to see people joining red first as a preference. Maybe the people who want to get red, but get blu are bummed out and don't play as well.
but you can't pick teams in arena...
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Squishy3 - 08-29-2008
you have to remember that a study was done that proves red team is always better than blue team.
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/06/12/scientists-find-red-team-is-better-than-blue-team-seriously/
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Mission Difficult - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:41 PM)Copulating8 Wrote: [quote author=Mission Difficult link=topic=1290.msg34885#msg34885 date=1220041970]
I think it might have more to do with human emotion. I tend to see people joining red first as a preference. Maybe the people who want to get red, but get blu are bummed out and don't play as well.
but you can't pick teams in arena...
[/quote]
Doesn't change the fact that people can be bummed out about being on blu.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Benito Mussolini - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:53 PM)Mission Difficult link Wrote: [quote author=Copulating8=====D link=topic=1290.msg34887#msg34887 date=1220042486]
[quote author=Mission Difficult link=topic=1290.msg34885#msg34885 date=1220041970]
I think it might have more to do with human emotion. I tend to see people joining red first as a preference. Maybe the people who want to get red, but get blu are bummed out and don't play as well.
but you can't pick teams in arena...
[/quote]
Doesn't change the fact that people can be bummed out about being on blu.
[/quote]
Or enraged when they see red!
(08-29-2008, 03:03 PM)Dave link Wrote: nope wont even out since there are allways better players than others the system doesnt measure skill, maybe the better players have randomly endedup in red more often, with the 5 wins to scramble the teams system, it wouldnt take to many teams to be good to get up to 5 wins.
Dave, so many matches have been played that the probabilies have to be close to the theoric 50%. You would be right if those stats were from a single server and on a small time lapse.
Calculating the starts from all servers in one week, chance has nothing to do with the stats.
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Surf314 - 08-29-2008
(08-29-2008, 03:25 PM)A. Crow link Wrote: [quote author=Dave link=topic=1290.msg34867#msg34867 date=1220040207]no, its just chance, your mind thinks it would be an even score but in reality it would never be 50/50 even with random chance and forced balanced teams, its more likely to be 50/50 but it doesnt mean it has to be.
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34811#msg34811 date=1220028557]
[quote author=Dave link=topic=1290.msg34810#msg34810 date=1220028385]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1290.msg34800#msg34800 date=1220027486]
Thats really odd, I don't think theres any unsymmetrical arena maps, maybe something to do with the color pallet on some maps making it easier to see one color as opposed to the other?
i put forward that there are no contributing factors to this, and its just happens that the players with more skill happen to be on red, not everything is even in arena, and a good team is more likely to stay on and win.
[/quote]
Except that unlike other maps you don't pick your team in arena, its random assignment. Random team assignments on balanced maps mean that across thousands of samples it should even out with some single digit margin of error.
[/quote]
nope wont even out since there are allways better players than others the system doesnt measure skill, maybe the better players have randomly endedup in red more often, with the 5 wins to scramble the teams system, it wouldnt take to many teams to be good to get up to 5 wins.
the system promotes good players staying on, and i know it also gives both teams the chance of getting better players, but by chance red is simply gettign better teams, its random choice, it happens.
[/quote]
/instantiate physics degree
No Dave. In fact, if it were completely random chance like you're attributing this to, summing up over all servers over all rounds on that one map would actually be pretty damn close to even. The world is a Gaussian. Populations are Gaussians.  YOU are a Gaussian. Data like this points to something being wrong with the map.
[/quote]
Red gets Gauss rifles?
Re: Arena balance: Red vs Blu - Neonie - 08-29-2008
every time I read this thread, all I see is this:
3.14091724027012463809123469012684902469024638912743901274390981249071273412783435268
1678946389126489246829346789263489123891273463128964312789463791263477389126346129346
2389401239749012734890172903479012347902781349127890341278930471289034712890347902381
2134987290384712903749024739127834901274389021734890127348901273490824790128347289131
8902347091273497294723489273490238907408923894723907490238478902734723890472389074078
8904723890478902349072390723890472389748902734890723890472389047890237489027349789237
2903840238904823904823908490234890238490238490238490238904823904823904890288928905556
2i358904358043543584358435584390589043584390589034504359038590490439058439058430584390