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+--- Thread: Azure Needs an Opinion (/showthread.php?tid=13327)
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Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - k0ala - 06-24-2012
A.
Anything else could be interpreted as the Battle Standard and may be taken as an invitation to fight.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - cbre88x - 06-24-2012
(06-24-2012, 11:13 AM)rumsfald link Wrote: [quote author=cbre88x link=topic=6400.msg248136#msg248136 date=1340508887]
The stainless banner represents what the southern states wanted most: economical freedoms and states rights. I propose that banner simply because it still carries the stars and bars without the negative connotation of the war. It's the blank slate the south wanted before blood and bullets ruined the true reason for southern desire of secession.
Also, I'm still pissed that the Georgia state flag was changed because of that bullshit of negative connotations.
Seabreeze, Georgia's Declaration of Seccession mentions slavery some 35 times, starting with the second sentence. And it closes with this gem:
[tt]Because by their declared principles and policy they have outlawed $3,000,000,000 of our property in the common territories of the Union...[/tt]
Let's not pretend it was about some higher purpose.
Southern sympathizers can no more reclaim a CSA flag any more than African-Americans can fully reclaim the "n-word" and free it from negative associations. Anyone who wields either risks engendering significant and horrible associations among their fellow citizens.
[/quote]
I was trying to avoid this issue. But apparently, when I say "states rights" it doesn't encompass slavery. Sure, slavery was a factor in the secession and eventual war..but it wasn't the biggest fundamental issue.
What pisses me off is that most people will sit there and champion the north and Lincoln as a beacon of liberty. What most people refuse to believe is Lincoln's belief that black assimilation was impossible as he believed whites and blacks were social unequals..and he planned to ship slaves back to Africa.
Yea sure, my statement was dressed up, but plain and simple. The secession and war happened because of MONEY $$$$$$$
Now, can we get back to helping out Azure instead of talking about old hat issues without pissing our pants. Jesus Fucking Christ.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - Greatbacon - 06-24-2012
(06-24-2012, 03:56 PM)k0ala link Wrote: A.
Anything else could be interpreted as the Battle Standard and may be taken as an invitation to fight.
This. Most people probably don't know (or don't care) about the differences between the battle standard and the actual flag of the confederacy.
As the first flag doesn't contain any reference to the stars and bars, if anyone does wish to comment on it, it would most likely be a "what flag is that" rather than jumping immediately into a debate about the Confederacy and it's justifications and all that jazz.
This would at least give you some chance to talk about how it's your choice of representation for the southern states you've visited, rather than any particular statement for or against the confederacy.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - kaese - 06-24-2012
Speaking as someone who has no interest in American history I can only give you my opinion regarding the appearances of the flags.
The first one is the most visually appealing to me; the other flags have bizarre ratios with the different colors and sections. The white parts are especially off-putting.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - HeK - 06-24-2012
Needs more leafs.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - Azure_Angel - 06-24-2012
Thanks for the help everyone! I'm glad I got the feedback I did. I really appreciate the opinions.
I loved hearing everyone's reasons for why they chose the flag they did.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - Surf314 - 06-25-2012
I think the first flag looks the best and has the least unintended meaning associated with it.
I think these flags carry a strong emotional charge for Americans because they make us face a very strong cognitive dissonance in our culture. We like to pride ourselves on being a melting pot, but the truth is each new culture tended to have a bad time of it. Slavery represents the worst example and it still has an impact on our country to this day. It also represents deep ideological divides. Again we like to think of ourselves as pragmatists, but that is not true. A large percentage of our population follows a brand of ideology without applying the sort of scientific reasoning and testing that is necessary to be truly pragmatic. These divides were so strong it once divided our country. If we were truly over them then the flags would just be a history lesson, but we aren't. To a lot of us, these flags remind us of the deep divisions that can come with an "open" society.
Re: Azure Needs an Opinion - Azure_Angel - 06-25-2012
I forgot to mention that I'm going with the Stars and Bars
thanks again!