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+--- Thread: Aw, god damnit. (/showthread.php?tid=4409)
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Moosendoo - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 07:47 PM)backfire link Wrote: This I don't get. You're acting as if you LIKE to idle outside of the game to get items. I mean, as long as you play the game on a semi-regular basis, you'll get as much items as if you were idleing. Are you just sad that you actually have to do SOMETHING for your items? "Oh noes I cant get hats wen im at scool or work!"Well, idling still works; it's just that there's a limit to how much it works now.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - beep beep diglett - 04-20-2010
2 things
1. hats dont mean shit
2. hats dont mean shit
3. stop whining
Re: Aw, god damnit. - backfire - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 07:50 PM)lil d link Wrote: 3 things
1. hats dont mean shit
2. hats dont mean shit
3. stop whining
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Kenny Strife - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 07:44 PM)Wrath Of Tsuruya link Wrote: This and I wish they could just somehow give out items on a fair basis. Like skill possibly? They whined about people using idling servers to bug that out, but they could easily beat them with the Screw-You-Stick if those servers started to pop up.
I think that Valve wants to avoid becoming the Server Cops, which is why they're still looking for a system that can't be tricked. They'll never find the perfect system, but they're getting close to a fair one.
I really can't see the whole backlash about getting less items via idling. I don't idle simply because I need my computer to be able to perform 24/7 and I don't have a separate one for non-gaming activities, and I just recently got my third hat. I've clocked 293 hours, so that means I'm averaging about one hat every 100 hours. Despite my in-game poor and Irish status, my enjoyment has not decreased. In fact, it's such a pleasant surprise when I get something new and cool that I'd say my enjoyment has increased.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - copulatingduck - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 07:47 PM)backfire link Wrote: To counter another argument. If you don't play tf2 a lot anyways, then why do you care about items?
Valve's Blog Wrote:We're still thinking about how to allow you to influence your drops. When we see discussions on the forums, people often ask why we don't tie it to some in-game performance (like your scoreboard position, or number of kills, etc). Many players understand that if we did this, idle servers would simply change into servers running plugins that generate those in-game events frequently (as we saw in the Soldier & Demoman WAR!).
That's not a counter to any argument, it's just a fallacious and melodramatic, rhetorical question. Whether I play frequently or not has no bearing on my argument. My argument is "If valve insists on adding new content to TF2 update after update (hats and weapons), why do they at the same time insist on making it so much harder to actually unlock that content?"
It's not even just about hats. The most recent weapons released are unique weapons that you can only get through random drops. Whenever they release more, this just means it's going to take even longer to collect the newest weapons.
As I recall, even you yourself were frustrated with the whole drop system when you couldn't get a sledgehammer. You complained about idling and a random-number-generator's inability to gift you with the newest weapons? Do you really want to go sit around for weeks on end, hoping for a new weapon that could completely change the way you could play a class? Because with Valve limiting the number of drops you can receive in a week, you won't be able to hurry along the process by idling in textmode for a week or two.
The problem is that Valve would just give players more influence over what items they collect, this wouldn't be a problem. They've known this all along, but they don't want to just give out all the content, who knows why. Instead, they insist on mmoprgizing a shooter by adding new items that can only be collected via random drops; initially the new items were just hats, as a way to bolster waning interest in the game.
After the spy/sniper update (when new items could only be collected [u]randomly for a short period of time) there was a big backlash. Valve quickly re-implemented unlocks [u]giving players influence over how they collect the new items. But there was still frustration with a random drop system, so eventually Valve added the crafting system, once again [u]giving players a little more influence over item collection. Are you seeing a trend here?
The current system was fine, but now that they're limiting the number drops you can get in a week, they're essentially saying "Didn't get the item you wanted this week? Wait again and try in another 1-4 weeks, depending on what you're fishing for." Which is fine if you play an mmorpg, but I don't play this game to watch some arbitrary stat go up little by little every week. I suppose a lot of you will disagree with me though, seeing how much some of you cried about this thread
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Kenny Strife - 04-20-2010
While drops are capped, they are also guaranteed. I've seen people idle for days and complain about not getting a single weapon, not even a dupe. That's a consequence of a random system. It's random, so you don't get "your turn". Every time it rolls to see if you get an item, there's a chance it'll say that, no, you don't get one. Granted, idling gives you a lot of potential drops, but those aren't the same as actual drops. The dice can roll a billion times and say no a billion times. But the guaranteed drops are, well, guaranteed. If the system says you get ten items a week, then you get ten items a week, no matter what. The dice decide when you get your items, so potentially you could get screwed out of a few of those items if you don't play often. But Valve said an hour a day should be sufficient to get your drops, so that means time shouldn't be an issue for hardcore gamers. I'd much rather have a steady, reliable "item allowance" than a thousand dice rolls. I know that I'll get the items from my allowance, but every time I roll those dice there's a chance I'll lose.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - beep beep diglett - 04-20-2010
i agree that making the new shit random drop only is retarded, but honestly hats have fucking swallowed this game, they were never meant to be taken this serious, ffs
Re: Aw, god damnit. - wangmauler - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 06:06 PM)Turtle link Wrote: TF2 now officially is useless
everyone, play http://www.fortress-forever.com/. gogogo!
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Darklink - 04-20-2010
$100 says they forgot to add a cap to the time roll and some people roll 100 years later.
Also if no one realizes TF2 is a tool to get cash now. Pre-order this game and get a free hat!
Re: Aw, god damnit. - backfire - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 09:43 PM)Duck link Wrote: [quote author=backfire link=topic=4516.msg147971#msg147971 date=1271810854]
To counter another argument. If you don't play tf2 a lot anyways, then why do you care about items?
Valve's Blog Wrote:We're still thinking about how to allow you to influence your drops. When we see discussions on the forums, people often ask why we don't tie it to some in-game performance (like your scoreboard position, or number of kills, etc). Many players understand that if we did this, idle servers would simply change into servers running plugins that generate those in-game events frequently (as we saw in the Soldier & Demoman WAR!).
That's not a counter to any argument, it's just a fallacious and melodramatic, rhetorical question. Whether I play frequently or not has no bearing on my argument. My argument is "If valve insists on adding new content to TF2 update after update (hats and weapons), why do they at the same time insist on making it so much harder to actually unlock that content?"
It's not even just about hats. The most recent weapons released are unique weapons that you can only get through random drops. Whenever they release more, this just means it's going to take even longer to collect the newest weapons.
As I recall, even you yourself were frustrated with the whole drop system when you couldn't get a sledgehammer. You complained about idling and a random-number-generator's inability to gift you with the newest weapons? Do you really want to go sit around for weeks on end, hoping for a new weapon that could completely change the way you could play a class? Because with Valve limiting the number of drops you can receive in a week, you won't be able to hurry along the process by idling in textmode for a week or two.
The problem is that Valve would just give players more influence over what items they collect, this wouldn't be a problem. They've known this all along, but they don't want to just give out all the content, who knows why. Instead, they insist on mmoprgizing a shooter by adding new items that can only be collected via random drops; initially the new items were just hats, as a way to bolster waning interest in the game.
After the spy/sniper update (when new items could only be collected [u]randomly for a short period of time) there was a big backlash. Valve quickly re-implemented unlocks [u]giving players influence over how they collect the new items. But there was still frustration with a random drop system, so eventually Valve added the crafting system, once again [u]giving players a little more influence over item collection. Are you seeing a trend here?
The current system was fine, but now that they're limiting the number drops you can get in a week, they're essentially saying "Didn't get the item you wanted this week? Wait again and try in another 1-4 weeks, depending on what you're fishing for." Which is fine if you play an mmorpg, but I don't play this game to watch some arbitrary stat go up little by little every week. I suppose a lot of you will disagree with me though, seeing how much some of you cried about this thread
[/quote]
+1 for being the first person to actually write a descriptive reason as to WHY you don't like the new item drop system. I see what'cha sayin though. I'd say a nice easy to way make hunting for items you actually want'd be to give a higher chance of finding an item for the class you played the most recently. Want the new hammer for some reason? Play nothin but pyro. Instead of having an equal chance of finding an item for every class, the chance of finding a pyro item would be much larger than the rest of the classes.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - copulatingduck - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 09:52 PM)Pedospy link Wrote: blah
You're missing the point. You're still rolling dice to get items. Sure, you are guaranteed that you will receive some items, but what you get is up to chance. If you didn't get what you wanted, you can try crafting, but what you get is up to chance. I care because I still follow and want to play competitively, and some of the items are genuinely interesting and change the way a class can be played (and hopefully other items will open up what classes can be played). But insisting players "roll the dice" just means that those items will never be allowed in comp, and then you just end up with the same cut-and-dry gameplay
Re: Aw, god damnit. - copulatingduck - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 10:01 PM)backfire link Wrote: I'd say a nice easy to way make hunting for items you actually want'd be to give a higher chance of finding an item for the class you played the most recently. Want the new hammer for some reason? Play nothin but pyro. Instead of having an equal chance of finding an item for every class, the chance of finding a pyro item would be much larger than the rest of the classes.
This would be perfect
Re: Aw, god damnit. - beep beep diglett - 04-20-2010
(04-20-2010, 10:02 PM)Duck link Wrote: [quote author=backfire link=topic=4516.msg147996#msg147996 date=1271818872]
I'd say a nice easy to way make hunting for items you actually want'd be to give a higher chance of finding an item for the class you played the most recently. Want the new hammer for some reason? Play nothin but pyro. Instead of having an equal chance of finding an item for every class, the chance of finding a pyro item would be much larger than the rest of the classes.
This would be perfect
[/quote]
yes
so would throwing in another milestone for the classes with the new weps
Re: Aw, god damnit. - [fr31ns]Karrde - 04-20-2010
*throws nursing school rage at valve*Â I don't really care actually
 I was idling mostly because I could and was spending almost all my computer time doing schoolwork. Got some metal from it so no complaints.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Kenny Strife - 04-20-2010
Most of the weapons except for the new community ones and the Gunboats are available through achievements. Even if you don't want to farm them for items, a lot of them can be gotten through regular gameplay fairly quickly. I unlocked all my Spy weapons within a day or two, after they gave the Spy milestones.
I'm sorry, Duck, I sort of assumed that you were talking about hats and crafting fodder. Hardly anybody cares about the weapons anymore.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - CaffeinePowered - 04-21-2010
(04-20-2010, 11:09 PM)Pedospy link Wrote: Hardly anybody cares about the weapons anymore.
They still wont allow any non-unlock weapon in comp play, simply for the reason duck stated earlier. I think its kind of bogus and I also think what backfire said makes much more sense.
The same should apply for hats, as your hours with a class approach X the chance of getting a hat drop for that class increases to 1. Would alleviate a lot of the, "Oh well i got a hat...but its for a class I suck with/hate playing."
I'm going to continue to idle for the rest of the week to see how this system works (if they don't break something like they did last time), its not as if my box at home isn't on all the time anyway...
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Cloud_9ine - 04-21-2010
I would probably have to say, assuming it gets a bit tweaked and is currently not Valve bugged, I am going to love this new system.
Duck, it hurts me as a person for you to say those who play less (or those who don't crazy idle) are not part of Valves "dedicated fanbase". I go to a residential high school and our IT department is full of idiots and so we actually have a whitelist of our open ports. I am unable to afford a decent tunneling service (although with some work I can set up a SOCKS proxy for our computer club which has DMZ access) and on top of that, our courses are practically college level and then some here. I am unable to really play during the week.
I play on the weekends a fair bit when I am not swamped with homework or busy with Robotics. If I wanted to even get an item in general I would have to idle the crap out of the game for anything. I feel that while it does take some item gathering power from idlers, I personally love it since it can at least guarantee me something. I just wanted to speak up because you should not assume that low game time players are not dedicated. They may just be unable to play and this system is on the road to being a fair one for all players..
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Darklink - 04-21-2010
(04-21-2010, 05:22 AM)Caffeine link Wrote: [quote author=Pedospy link=topic=4516.msg148013#msg148013 date=1271822975]
Hardly anybody cares about the weapons anymore.
They still wont allow any non-unlock weapon in comp play, simply for the reason duck stated earlier. I think its kind of bogus and I also think what backfire said makes much more sense.
The same should apply for hats, as your hours with a class approach X the chance of getting a hat drop for that class increases to 1. Would alleviate a lot of the, "Oh well i got a hat...but its for a class I suck with/hate playing."
I'm going to continue to idle for the rest of the week to see how this system works (if they don't break something like they did last time), its not as if my box at home isn't on all the time anyway...
[/quote]It definitely seems broken I got 3 items for idling 2 hours and 4 for idling around 5.
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Moosendoo - 04-21-2010
(04-21-2010, 02:56 PM)airmax link Wrote: It definitely seems broken I got 3 items for idling 2 hours and 4 for idling around 5.How is that broken? Isn't the average time between drops supposed to be shorter now (until you reach the weekly limit or whatever)?
Re: Aw, god damnit. - Darklink - 04-21-2010
(04-21-2010, 02:58 PM)Moosendoo link Wrote: [quote author=airmax link=topic=4516.msg148117#msg148117 date=1271879772]How is that broken? Isn't the average time between drops supposed to be shorter now (until you reach the weekly limit or whatever)?
It definitely seems broken I got 3 items for idling 2 hours and 4 for idling around 5.
[/quote]They said the weekly limit was around 1 hour a day. The idling alone gave me that many hours and I had played for around 3 hours already too (and got 2 items in that time).