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+--- Thread: Heavy Updates... Next Week? (/showthread.php?tid=1135)
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Eschatos - 08-15-2008
It all depends on how much it slows them. Even if it's by 50% they still have a reasonable chance of getting away.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Squishy3 - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 09:03 PM)Eschatos link Wrote: It all depends on how much it slows them. Even if it's by 50% they still have a reasonable chance of getting away.doesn't matter if they get away or not if the purpose of an uber is to kill everything hindering the team, and they can't do that well if they're moving at half of the speed.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - KorJax - 08-15-2008
We might be talking if multiple Natasha's could have a stacking effect, making it so people will move to a crawl.
Add that with KritzKrieg and/or Uber, and you have a beast.
There is a reason why the new weapon doesn't magically make it so the heavy can do well against soldiers+demomen.
Because those are his class weaknesses, and if you gave him a gun that would work against the weaknesses then you throw the balance out of wack and all of a sudden the heavy dominates most classes.
The point of new weapons is that they are never supposed to be better, they are just alternatives to playstyle that can benefit the team if used correctly. See the flaregun for example.Â
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - cannedpeahes - 08-15-2008
I'm just mulling this over and... to me it seems none of these updates really live up to the design goals Valve set. Really, most of these seem like they would just augment a Heavy that already has a medic. I mean, who flees from a lone heavy? We're softies. So Natascha isn't worth shit. And how the hell are you going to get close enough to punch somebody without a heal on you 24/7? It just doesn't add up.
If this next weapon doesn't do something damned substantial to liberate us from our Doctor Asslove, then I'm going to be very disappointed in Valve.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - copulatingduck - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 09:16 PM)KorJax link Wrote: We might be talking if multiple Natasha's could have a stacking effect, making it so people will move to a crawl.
Add that with KritzKrieg and/or Uber, and you have a beast.
There is a reason why the new weapon doesn't magically make it so the heavy can do well against soldiers+demomen.
Because those are his class weaknesses, and if you gave him a gun that would work against the weaknesses then you throw the balance out of wack and all of a sudden the heavy dominates most classes.
The point of new weapons is that they are never supposed to be better, they are just alternatives to playstyle that can benefit the team if used correctly. See the flaregun for example.Â
Well I would argue that those are in fact NOT supposed to be his weaknesses. I mean, Heavy already goes down to sniper and spy pretty hard. To say that he's also supposed to be countered by demomen and soldiers as well... Well then what the hell is he supposed to be good for? Scouts, pyros (but only out in the open; close quarters is pyros turf now), medics, and engies away from their sentries? That's a pretty shit role tbh. Valve stated they wanted the heavy to be more viable without a medic buddy. I don't really see how this weapon has does that at all. It arguably gives him a bigger advantage over classes that he counters well, but it doesnt really give him better viability. Hell, I would've been happier with a helmet that makes instagib headshots instead drop the heavy down to 1HP (but offers no protection if he's already below 75HP) or some such item.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Dave - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:00 PM)CopulatingDuck link Wrote: [quote author=KorJax link=topic=1155.msg30984#msg30984 date=1218852999]
We might be talking if multiple Natasha's could have a stacking effect, making it so people will move to a crawl.
Add that with KritzKrieg and/or Uber, and you have a beast.
There is a reason why the new weapon doesn't magically make it so the heavy can do well against soldiers+demomen.
Because those are his class weaknesses, and if you gave him a gun that would work against the weaknesses then you throw the balance out of wack and all of a sudden the heavy dominates most classes.
The point of new weapons is that they are never supposed to be better, they are just alternatives to playstyle that can benefit the team if used correctly. See the flaregun for example.Â
Well I would argue that those are in fact NOT supposed to be his weaknesses. I mean, Heavy already goes down to sniper and spy pretty hard. To say that he's also supposed to be countered by demomen and soldiers as well... Well then what the hell is he supposed to be good for? Scouts, pyros (but only out in the open; close quarters is pyros turf now), medics, and engies away from their sentries? That's a pretty shit role tbh. Valve stated they wanted the heavy to be more viable without a medic buddy. I don't really see how this weapon has does that at all. It arguably gives him a bigger advantage over classes that he counters well, but it doesnt really give him better viability. Hell, I would've been happier with a helmet that makes instagib headshots instead drop the heavy down to 1HP (but offers no protection if he's already below 75HP) or some such item.
[/quote]
instead of his medigun?
pfft
your all forgetting the shotgun slot were yet to learn, it could be the item that makes the heavy semi self dependant
which would ruint he class imo, its not meant to be able to wander around on its own, thats like saying the engi should be able to own without a sentry.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - cbre88x - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 09:51 PM)peaches link Wrote: I'm just mulling this over and... to me it seems none of these updates really live up to the design goals Valve set. Really, most of these seem like they would just augment a Heavy that already has a medic. I mean, who flees from a lone heavy? We're softies. So Natascha isn't worth shit. And how the hell are you going to get close enough to punch somebody without a heal on you 24/7? It just doesn't add up.
If this next weapon doesn't do something damned substantial to liberate us from our Doctor Asslove, then I'm going to be very disappointed in Valve.
Stop sucking on the teet and let your balls drop man. Natacha seems to be designed to work with other classes instead of the medic alone. You seem to be forgetting that the heavy must have a symbiotic relationship of some form to survive.
This is for everyone pointlessly whining about this update. Grow some fucking balls.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Versus - 08-15-2008
no u
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - 1Trace1 - 08-15-2008
I really think our whining here is all caused by the interpretation of the statement "Goal: Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with." Some feel it means he should be able to live while fighting without a medic, others feel it means making the heavy a class that can be a good addition to the team without a medic. "It shouldn't significantly change the Heavy's role, relative to other classes. In particular, it shouldn't significantly encroach on another class's role." With such constraints it's easy to see how they could've created a weapon like Natascha. Although as it stands I think the heavy could've used a little more than some slow. Just like some observed that heavies were hardly used in competitive play. Hopefully they'll add something to sasha just like they added the airblast *crosses fingers*
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - rumsfald - 08-15-2008
Wow, I don't understand this hate.
In most games, snares and movement reductions are some of the most important and powerful effects.
A heavy with this can lock down a chokepoint with a sentry. Slower targets is going to make the sentry (especially the rockets, for that matter solly and demo rockets) that much more accurate. 50% is a HUGE movement reduction.
For me, I think the key will be whether or not the slow will affect ubered players. If it does, it is going to be much harder for ubered pyros to be the sentry killers that they currently are.
I doubt it would stack, that would be so OP. 2 heavies and 1 sentry could lock down any chokepoint forever.
True, I don't see how it improves viability or offense, but this looks like a prime defensive tool.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - copulatingduck - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:06 PM)cbre88x link Wrote: [quote author=peaches link=topic=1155.msg30998#msg30998 date=1218855096]
I'm just mulling this over and... to me it seems none of these updates really live up to the design goals Valve set. Really, most of these seem like they would just augment a Heavy that already has a medic. I mean, who flees from a lone heavy? We're softies. So Natascha isn't worth shit. And how the hell are you going to get close enough to punch somebody without a heal on you 24/7? It just doesn't add up.
If this next weapon doesn't do something damned substantial to liberate us from our Doctor Asslove, then I'm going to be very disappointed in Valve.
Stop sucking on the teet and let your balls drop man. Natacha seems to be designed to work with other classes instead of the medic alone. You seem to be forgetting that the heavy must have a symbiotic relationship of some form to survive.
This is for everyone pointlessly whining about this update. Grow some fucking balls.
[/quote]
A sniper getting excited about the heavy's gun being able to slow his targets down needs to aim better.Â
:-* :-* :-*
I still love ya Seabreeze
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Luca Shoal - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:06 PM)cbre88x link Wrote: This is for everyone pointlessly whining about this update. Grow some fucking balls.I also wanna second rummy's sentiment. Srsly.
edit - and this is coming from the Pyro that eats Heavies :I
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Ianki - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:23 PM)rumsfald link Wrote: In most games, snares and movement reductions are some of the most important and powerful effects.
Go play more WoW. I think your level 40 hunter needs more grinding in Stranglethorn Vale
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - zaneyard - 08-15-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:23 PM)rumsfald link Wrote: Wow, I don't understand this hate.cough cough, heavy being a defense class, cough cough
In most games, snares and movement reductions are some of the most important and powerful effects.
A heavy with this can lock down a chokepoint with a sentry. Slower targets is going to make the sentry (especially the rockets, for that matter solly and demo rockets) that much more accurate. 50% is a HUGE movement reduction.
For me, I think the key will be whether or not the slow will affect ubered players. If it does, it is going to be much harder for ubered pyros to be the sentry killers that they currently are.
I doubt it would stack, that would be so OP. 2 heavies and 1 sentry could lock down any chokepoint forever.
True, I don't see how it improves viability or offense, but this looks like a prime defensive tool.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - cbre88x - 08-16-2008
(08-15-2008, 10:49 PM)CopulatingDuck link Wrote: A sniper getting excited about the heavy's gun being able to slow his targets down needs to aim better.Â
:-* :-* :-*
I still love ya Seabreeze
Hell it makes my job easier. Besides..it doesn't matter..I can still take down fast moving scouts. It's pretty sad that I find taking out scouts is easier than soldiers.
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - copulatingduck - 08-16-2008
Achievements are up. Too much of a grind for me to give a shit, unless that last unlockable is actually going to be worth a damn.
http://steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/kgb.htm
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - 1Trace1 - 08-16-2008
I can't believe they really made his last unlockable a sandvich :'(
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Vongore - 08-16-2008
Heavy Industry: Fire $200,000 worth of minigun rounds in a single life.
That should be like 12 seconds of firing
(08-16-2008, 03:02 AM)1Trace1 link Wrote: I can't believe they really made his last unlockable a sandvich :'(
It isn't :0
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - copulatingduck - 08-16-2008
(08-16-2008, 03:14 AM)Vongore link Wrote: Heavy Industry: Fire $200,000 worth of minigun rounds in a single life.
That should be like 12 seconds of firing
Actually that's only 6 seconds. At least according to the video. :|
Quote:It fires $200 custom tool(?) cartridges at 10,000 rounds/minute. It costs $400,000 to fire this weapon for 12 seconds
Re: Heavy Updates... Next Week? - Vongore - 08-16-2008
(08-16-2008, 03:18 AM)CopulatingDuck link Wrote: [quote author=Vongore link=topic=1155.msg31109#msg31109 date=1218874462]
Heavy Industry: Fire $200,000 worth of minigun rounds in a single life.
That should be like 12 seconds of firing
[quote author=1Trace1 link=topic=1155.msg31108#msg31108 date=1218873740]
I can't believe they really made his last unlockable a sandvich :'(
It isn't :0
[/quote]
I remember he said 12 seconds
Actually that's only 6 seconds. At least according to the video. :|
[/quote]