CTF_Mercy

[Kirby]

Please do, It's going in FNF.

[Kirby]

[Map Update] ctf_mercy_b2

CTF_Mercy has been updated to beta 2.

B2 CHANGES/FIXES:
-Flag return timer increased to 20 seconds
-Spawn timers slightly increased, still shorter than stock
-Flag podium can no longer be built on directly, it has taken damage and is unsafe for building.  Sign added to indicate this.
-Flagroom flank window made more accessible with an additional branch for attackers on the bottom base route.
-More optimization

Download and Screenshots: http://www.vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_ctf_mercy
(You can always find the latest version at this location).

Flagroom flank window is OP right now, you can camp that spawn exit next to the window with impunity from the other side due to it's size and distance to the people coming out of spawn.

[vilepickle]

Interesting.  A change to the location of the FR entrance or another from spawn is probably needed then.

[Dtrain323i]

this popped up in the rotation over the weekend. I will say that it's a much more fun map with fewer people and no demo spam going on.

[vilepickle]

[Map Update] ctf_mercy_b3

CTF_Mercy has been updated to beta 3.

B3 CHANGES/FIXES:
-NEW FEATURE: Mercy rule.  When a team is ahead by 5 or more caps, the enemy flag gets disabled for 30 seconds after capture.  This should ease some competitive games that are complete blowouts typical to CTF
-Mercy rule will not affect close games or publics limited to 3 captures
-Long horizontal sightline across the middle health pack removed by rotating the doors on this building.  Also frees up room around that building by removing the cinder blocks.
-Skybox tree color darkened
-The route below the base is much more roomy now
-Below base route entrance extended slightly into the middle
-Flagroom entrance from spawn is much larger now, prevents some spam
-Can no longer have dispensers provide ammo through the wall behind the flagroom
-Flagroom window clipping tweaked to make passing the flag through harder
-Flag podium rubble visuals improved greatly
-Flag location on podium moved back some to get it further away from the main door
-Flag podium now has a railing on the end
-Further optimization

Download and Screenshots: http://www.vilepickle.com/map/screens/tf2_ctf_mercy
(You can always find the latest version at this location).

[Surf314]

Had some people run the train on the intel when I was playing (I was on losing side) and then a bunch of people rage quit. I know it is supposed to be fast pace but this could kill this map for pub play. It was basically a heavy/medic/proro and they locked down our intel room while a scout ferried the intel back and forth. A 3 cap loss in about a minute.

[CaffeinePowered]

Had some people run the train on the intel when I was playing (I was on losing side) and then a bunch of people rage quit. I know it is supposed to be fast pace but this could kill this map for pub play. It was basically a heavy/medic/proro and they locked down our intel room while a scout ferried the intel back and forth. A 3 cap loss in about a minute.

Ive noticed this happening a few times too, quite infuriating.

[Kirby]

There also seems to be an inability for defenders to deal with people outside the spawn room window in the wall still, they just seem to have the uphill advantage, 'specially with demomen on the other side.

[beep beep diglett]

i think the main issue is that this map is totally balanced around 6v6, so anything more than that is horribly unbalanced

[vilepickle]

So is there too much pressure on the defender spawn exit?  Have people tried going out the primary spawn exit to use the entrances to your own base to counter the attack instead?  The travel time required to do this is actually quite short and instead of muddling the base with another spawn exit (like to the sniper deck corridor) I'd prefer to recognize that players tried the alternatives that exist.

The main spawn exit leads to mid, which gives pretty sound access to the lower base route and the main base entrance for flanking.

[vilepickle]

i think the main issue is that this map is totally balanced around 6v6, so anything more than that is horribly unbalanced

While roughly true, that doesn't mean a mapper should not aim for all aspects of play.

[CaffeinePowered]

I think going out the other exit doesn't really help all that much, exiting onto mid, a lot of times I've seen mid covered by a sentry in a larger game. By the time you go around the flag is going to be in and out twice.

I would suggest the following


When you are at the top of the stairs down to the flag from the defender's POV, there's a hallway that leads out into the middle, I would suggest making a 3rd spawn exit that goes into that hall (I can't remember if the geometry allows for this)

Then in that hallway I'd put another window looking out and down at the flag, this would serve both as a second place for attackers to spam from and for defenders to counter spam campers from.

[Surf314]

So is there too much pressure on the defender spawn exit?  Have people tried going out the primary spawn exit to use the entrances to your own base to counter the attack instead?  The travel time required to do this is actually quite short and instead of muddling the base with another spawn exit (like to the sniper deck corridor) I'd prefer to recognize that players tried the alternatives that exist.

The main spawn exit leads to mid, which gives pretty sound access to the lower base route and the main base entrance for flanking.

The main problem I had seems pretty pub specific. It's basically that if you get 2-3 people who know what they are doing and 1 person that knows how to hold down "w" as a scout you can get rolled very fast. Basically any team balance issues are grossly magnified due to how fast the map is. So the rolled team needs to figure out how to properly deal with a medic supported small group very quickly and that usually isn't possible in a pub match. When I was on the losing team we had some pretty good players but they were running out as they spawned because of the pressure and getting cleaned up.

The only thing I can think of is to figure out a way to give the defenders time to regroup in between caps. I don't know if that means a longer respawn time on the intel or having doors that lock between caps to give them time to clean out the room and set up.

But due to the rage quitting and the fact that most pub games are at least slightly unbalanced this map is pretty much a no go for pub server rotation.

[vilepickle]

I think going out the other exit doesn't really help all that much, exiting onto mid, a lot of times I've seen mid covered by a sentry in a larger game. By the time you go around the flag is going to be in and out twice.

I would suggest the following


When you are at the top of the stairs down to the flag from the defender's POV, there's a hallway that leads out into the middle, I would suggest making a 3rd spawn exit that goes into that hall (I can't remember if the geometry allows for this)

Then in that hallway I'd put another window looking out and down at the flag, this would serve both as a second place for attackers to spam from and for defenders to counter spam campers from.

The "hallway" I think is the battlement hallway?  That's where I would do it if I did, but it really hurts the sniper deck as a spot to attack from with that change (not that it's superb now, but it would be worse).

I'll probably end up trying this out though.

[Kirby]

So is there too much pressure on the defender spawn exit?  Have people tried going out the primary spawn exit to use the entrances to your own base to counter the attack instead?  The travel time required to do this is actually quite short and instead of muddling the base with another spawn exit (like to the sniper deck corridor) I'd prefer to recognize that players tried the alternatives that exist.

The main spawn exit leads to mid, which gives pretty sound access to the lower base route and the main base entrance for flanking.

I use this exit every time just because you can be inside the other teams base as a Pyro before they can get out, makes for a nasty shock tactic.

That said, it's my observation that 80% of poeople don't even know that the outside the base spawn exit door even exists, I see maybe one or two other people ever use it.

[Black Aspen]

Personally, I REALLY like the idea of the flag room locking down after an enemy cap.  Not sure if that's possible or not though.  If it is, I think that could really add some nice flair to the map.

Not only does it stop the enemy from rolling constant caps, but it would also potentially give the defending team a bit of time to collect themselves and get a defense up (that was likely smashed in the process of the preceding cap).  It may also serve to lock any offense cappers in the area, to suffer an onslaught of enemy reinforcements, which should help stop the cap rolling we've been talking about.

If that's too extreme though, it might also be cool to leave just ONE way into the flag room temporarily after a cap.  Easier to defend for the team that was just capped against, but still allows the team on the offense to get a shot at the intel.

[Didzo]

Personally, I REALLY like the idea of the flag room locking down after an enemy cap.  Not sure if that's possible or not though.  If it is, I think that could really add some nice flair to the map.

Not only does it stop the enemy from rolling constant caps, but it would also potentially give the defending team a bit of time to collect themselves and get a defense up (that was likely smashed in the process of the preceding cap).  It may also serve to lock any offense cappers in the area, to suffer an onslaught of enemy reinforcements, which should help stop the cap rolling we've been talking about.

If that's too extreme though, it might also be cool to leave just ONE way into the flag room temporarily after a cap.  Easier to defend for the team that was just capped against, but still allows the team on the offense to get a shot at the intel.

What if there is another small group of attackers in the intel room waiting for the intel to respawn after the cap already? A heavy-medic combo with either a soldier or demo may lead to some form of spawn camping. Additionally, an offensive engi could see this as the perfect opportunity for setting up a sentry in the middle of the map covering the locked door. I see the locked intel room as a less than ideal solution, though it may be an interesting concept to test out.

[Surf314]

The thing I was thinking of would be too corny but whatever. Anyone remember the TFC map where you had to run the intel into a control room and then it locked down and flooded the base with gas? Well I was thinking that could be what happens to the intel room after a cap.

Also isn't there a remake of that map for TF2? Cuz that map was awesome.

[CaffeinePowered]

The thing I was thinking of would be too corny but whatever. Anyone remember the TFC map where you had to run the intel into a control room and then it locked down and flooded the base with gas? Well I was thinking that could be what happens to the intel room after a cap.

Also isn't there a remake of that map for TF2? Cuz that map was awesome.

rock2 - that was a sweet map I never understood why they didn't port it, you took the intel from a spot in their base to a control room, when you capped the whole level flooded with poison gas, killing everyone

[Black Aspen]

All this talk reminds me of Crossfire, the best of the HL: Deathmatch maps.  Fuck the cart, fuck the intel, fuck the final cap point, no map has ever had a more important goal than that nuke button in the bunker.  TF2 maps with level-killing features would be soooo perfect for TFT/FNF.