PYRO UNLOCKABLES LEAKED READ NOW

[Surf314]

Duck pyro's aren't just for breaking ubers now.  They kill spies, deflect rockets, deflect nades, deflect stickies.  Engineers have found thier new love and her/his name is pyro.  And I make a pretty good scout.  Experience makes 1v1 easy against other classes with scout.  That is completely not what I'm saying.

Harassing the other team sure that's fine too, again that's not what I'm saying.

A scout vs. sentries or pyros is absolute murder.  Pyros are understandable, nothing needs to be done there.  But 1 senty, even a level 1 sentry can be death to a scout.  And any possible strategy you have for it can be countered by a good engy.  I mean mostly the only way I can deal with them is to find them unmanned or to lure the engy away by acting like a dick and then killing him.  But taking out that sentry will cause the scout to stay still which makes him rape fodder for all other classes.

The reason why you hardly ever see any scouts during an evenly matched ctf map, and cp maps when the other team has dug in, is that a scout is useless against any reasonable defense.  Taking out that defense is usually hard work for the classes designed for it and staying alive long enough to wait while your team dismantles it is tough enough for the group of 5 solly, medic, heavy, demos you often see.  And if they are succesful they might as well just grab it, cap it themselves.

Any sentry pretty much guarantees no bonk zones for scouts.  I doubt even dave can do much against 1 let alone 2.

[Dave]

Dave I don't even remember playing against you, much less a 1v1.

From the Stats Page:

91. United kingdom    Dave -BRB,u- 6 4 1.5000 3 0.38% 0.38% 0.5000


So if we did 1v1, you obviously lost.

holy shit my rank!!!

i was 14 last week...
pretty sure you can look that up.

the new pyro update fucked my stats by letting people rape me and also the raw mele going on withtin the first half hour,
give me a week and ill be in the top 20 again.

and also ZoSo, by 1v1 i dont mean 2 people on a server, i mean in the middle of a battle and i have killed you a few times, and you have killed me, also i remeber screaming at you for being a dick when we were playing no scope only.....
and you werent.

[ZoSo]

excuses, excuses

also that isn't your rank, that is just my Player Kill Statistics sorted by kills.

[Dave]

Duck pyro's aren't just for breaking ubers now.  They kill spies, deflect rockets, deflect nades, deflect stickies.  Engineers have found thier new love and her/his name is pyro.  And I make a pretty good scout.  Experience makes 1v1 easy against other classes with scout.  That is completely not what I'm saying.

Harassing the other team sure that's fine too, again that's not what I'm saying.

A scout vs. sentries or pyros is absolute murder.  Pyros are understandable, nothing needs to be done there.  But 1 senty, even a level 1 sentry can be death to a scout.  And any possible strategy you have for it can be countered by a good engy.  I mean mostly the only way I can deal with them is to find them unmanned or to lure the engy away by acting like a dick and then killing him.  But taking out that sentry will cause the scout to stay still which makes him rape fodder for all other classes.

The reason why you hardly ever see any scouts during an evenly matched ctf map, and cp maps when the other team has dug in, is that a scout is useless against any reasonable defense.  Taking out that defense is usually hard work for the classes designed for it and staying alive long enough to wait while your team dismantles it is tough enough for the group of 5 solly, medic, heavy, demos you often see.  And if they are succesful they might as well just grab it, cap it themselves.

Any sentry pretty much guarantees no bonk zones for scouts.  I doubt even dave can do much against 1 let alone 2.

Yeah, 1 lvl sentry, engi or no engi will die eventually by me, it has a slow turning speed and the engi is either fixing the sentry, then i stand behind the engi and let the sentry kill the engi, or just shoot the engi if its placed well, or the engi is shooting me, and engis have shit for health so its a pistol duel form distance, then pick off the rest of his shit with whatever ammo i have left,  but two or more sentries at any level can molest me hard. but senrty removal isnt really the scouts job, its like telling an engi to go do the heavies job.

[Surf314]

I agree that sentry removal isn't the scouts job but I still think there needs to be something to counter it.  If the sentry is now even harder to take out with the help of the pyro, than it makes the scouts main function, running in and grabbing the intel or capping the point, extremely difficult.

which means the scout will now just be the harassment class.  I mean the scout is amazing at running down the clock when you are defending.  But as a flag carrier the scout's usefulness has really gone way down especially with this update.  Hell most maps are small enough where it doesn't even make sense for heavier classes to hand off the intel.

[Ianki]

How about this. we can replace the pistol with a rocket launcher.  Sure it'll have to slow him down a bit and he should lose his double jump, but it'll double his health and he can jump even higher off the rockets  .

But seriously, sentry guns are no problem if they are misplaced.  Scouts are actually faster then the turning rate of the sentry, so if your close enough, good enough, and the sentry is positioned incorrectly a scout can jump from above and circle strafe that thing to death.  Additionally, if no engi is on it and if the sentry is not pointed at your entrance, you can get off two or three shots if you're fast enough before mg fire hits you and a few more before a rocket would slam into your face if there is a medic nearby and you want to chance it.  Lastly, cornering with a pistol makes quick work of an engi-less sentry.  Scouts are not useless against sentries, just most of them .

Frankly, i don't get everyone's fascination with this whole "not dying thing" as compared to this whole "winning the game thing".  For me i have two modes of scout playing, Harraser where i stay to the sides of the matches shooting, moving, shooting, moving, killing killing killing.  In the other i sneak towards the point/intel as sneakily as i can.  You would be surprised, but playing a suicidal scout wins matches all over the place, mostly because everyone is too busy trying to kill medics in the mid field and keep their K/D ratio up to remember there are actually objectives on the levels  8)

[Surf314]

well we'll see how this plays out, but most of the time when I join the server and I see no scouts I think oh they've got a defense up.

And a lot of the times I wanna play scout I rage-change on ctf maps because teammates aren't working well with me to clear out the sentries.  The only times Ive been successful are against really stupid engys.  But we often have kor and joel working the turret, and they aren't so stupid.

I think the main point is that pyros weren't really used in competitive play because there wasn't much of a need for them.  There wasn't really an essential objective that couldn't be accomplished with a more well rounded class.  Now they have fixed that it seems.  But I'm afraid the scout is going to turn into that class.  With an engy pyro defense even one sentry will be extremely hard to take down.

The scout, like the pyro previously, only has one thing he does well.  And with such an easy counter I wonder how people will compensate.

[Ianki]

The scout, like the pyro previously, only has one thing he does well.  And with such an easy counter I wonder how people will compensate.

I think the scout does a lot of things really well if played correctly.  Teams just don't know to use them correctly, not that i'm particularly great at scouting in the first play.

[cbre88x]

Dave is right on the money with that scout strategy..though.. when I am playing my best it doesn't matter. You'll die by headshot.

[copulatingduck]

well we'll see how this plays out, but most of the time when I join the server and I see no scouts I think oh they've got a defense up.

And a lot of the times I wanna play scout I rage-change on ctf maps because teammates aren't working well with me to clear out the sentries.  The only times Ive been successful are against really stupid engys.  But we often have kor and joel working the turret, and they aren't so stupid.

I think the main point is that pyros weren't really used in competitive play because there wasn't much of a need for them.  There wasn't really an essential objective that couldn't be accomplished with a more well rounded class.  Now they have fixed that it seems.  But I'm afraid the scout is going to turn into that class.  With an engy pyro defense even one sentry will be extremely hard to take down.

The scout, like the pyro previously, only has one thing he does well.  And with such an easy counter I wonder how people will compensate.

Don't worry about comp play, scout is a fairly popular class in comp play as a skilled scout can really hurt another team. A few other notes:

Engy isn't particularly popular in comp play either; the problem is that good players can remove sentries with ease, uber or not. Just wait until you actually play in some competitive/league matches before you start complaining that valve's ruined comp balance.

Pub play != comp play

[Ianki]

Dave is right on the money with that scout strategy..though.. when I am playing my best it doesn't matter. You'll die by headshot.

Yeah, good snipers get you, average snipers do not, but again i play a suicidal scout at times and i'm really trying to test the other teams defenses from as many different points as possible until i find one that works/see other class opportunities to share with the team.  It has a high death ratio, but it tends to win matches.

[Dave]

Well, in the Euro FnF Dave managed to break through a blackade that had been going on for 8 minutes until i joined the server?

second stage dustbowl, had us trapped in the ditch.

simply by screaming at budr scotty and ain, and being awesome we went on to dominate the match.

[Surf314]

For the record I'm not bringing up any great imbalances, I'm just saying that there is definitely room for tweaking the scout like there was for pyro.

I never thought pyro was really under-powered, there was just some maps and situations where he was useless and no one played him.  I feel the same with the scout, that's all I'm saying.

Of course the same could also be said for the sniper, but people will play him whether he's useless in a particular map/situation or not (I'm looking at you zoso )

[cannedpeahes]

Oh wow... and here Soldier was looking to become my #1 offensive class.

Although I gotta wonder...

OMGWTFBBQ: Kill an enemy with a taunt.

Does this mean that the fireball taunt is going to do damage now? Please say yes! ^_^

>.<
No. It means that at the end of the guitar solo, you blow up. /sarcasm

Well, the weapons look interesting, and while some of the achievements do look situational, at least they're less invasive than the medic achievements.  All in all looks to be a fun update.

+1 for Bacon's new Avatar

Is it too much to hope for to get a canned fruit of some sort? Please, Valve?