Updates of the Week (ongoing discussion)

[KarthXLR]

Wow, the spy pack, new knife, and dead ringer combo is sooooooooooo cheap. The decloak sound is literally impossible to hear.

[Didzo]

Shortstop is fucking overpowered.

[Odin]

Holy shit I can name stuff now this update rocks

[Luca Shoal]

Natascha + Name Tag = HUGS FOR ALL

[Versus]

Natascha + Name Tag = HUGS FOR ALL

lol

[backfire]

So I got extremely lucky and crafted the milkman, which means I now have the entire special delivery kit. So here's my thoughts.

The +25 health boost and longer range shortstop means that scouts with this kit are much more capable in choke points or crowded areas. The milk is a nice way to support a team by either throwing it on a  group so the rest of your team can push up while recovering health, or you can douse your team if they get attacked by a pyro. The milk is also a great way to start an encounter if you get the jump on someone, mainly heavies, soldiers, and demos. Between the shortstop and milk, I find I'm much better at dealing with pyros since I can keep my distance, yet still put myself out if I get lit. The fish... is awesome, nothing further.

Downsides however. I admit the kit may be a bit overpowered in some areas, mainly with the shortstop (effectivly having a close to scattergun's damage at a much longer distance) though the 4 shots along with the lack of a sidearm forces you to seriously chose your targets before you jump in. Because of the weaker damage, taking on heavies in close quarters is quite a bit more tricky. Unless you threw milk on him beforehand, it's much harder to 1v1 heavies since the best way to deal with them is to run and jump around them at pointblank range, which isn't the shortstop's strength.

All in all, I wanna try and use this more, try and get used to it. The +25 health boost means I can also be overhealed up to 225hp, but although it may seem overpowered, I didn't really see a change in my average score. It seems it might just be I was doing better in situations where I normally have a hard time, and vice-versa. I'll continue testing and give any follow-ups.

Fish maaay just be the best weapon the scout ever got though... :p

[K2]

Because of the weaker damage, taking on heavies in close quarters is quite a bit more tricky. Unless you threw milk on him beforehand, it's much harder to 1v1 heavies since the best way to deal with them is to run and jump around them at pointblank range, which isn't the shortstop's strength..

I think the milk is awesome for going against heavies. Yesterday I single-handedly took down a heavy with a medic using milk and shortstop. I agree the worse pointblank damage hurts your chances, but the milk more than makes up for it.

[backfire]

Okay, after studying this thing some more, the shortstop really isn't as OP as people say it is. I've been looking at the numbers, doing tests in tr_walkway, and comparing it side by side with the scattergun in game... Basically, get over it. Last night people were complaining about taking down classes far too quickly with it. The scattergun's max damage at a pointblank shot is 105. That's enough to take out a heavy in 3 shots, 4 if they aren't all direct. Compare that to the shortstop where its max damage is 72. With that, it'll take at least 5 shots to take down a heavy.


Now, I know the biggest complaint about this weapon is that it does too much damage over a long distance, but compare it with the pistol.

The scout's pistol can empty out a 12 round clip in about 2 seconds at 9 damage per bullet long range totaling to around 108 damage with about a 1.25 second reload.

The shortstop can fire it's 4 shots in the 2 seconds at around 6-12 damage per shot long range totaling to 48 damage with a 1.25 second reload.


The reason why most of you are raging at this thing is because rarely do you see scouts who use pistols effectively. Most people seem to seriously misunderestimate it, instead opting for bonk or CoC.

As for medium and short range, this other guy's video sums it up.

Let's compare : Shortstop, is it OP?


If you still think it's overpowered and demand it be nerfed, then get rid of the slowdown. It's pointless and hardly noticeable (at least to me), but since this specializes in medium range combat as opposed to the scattergun's pointblank tactics, don't get pissed off when it takes more than a rocket pointed at your feet to kill a scout.

[K2]

The reason why most of you are raging at this thing is because rarely do you see scouts who use pistols effectively. Most people seem to seriously misunderestimate it, instead opting for bonk or CoC.

I agree.

[Versus]

scout pistol owns

[beep beep diglett]

problem is we're all playing in a pub situation and caff is on drugs and keeps crits spread and weapon spread on. scatter rarely does 81 at medium because only 5 of the pellets will hit, compared to shortstop hitting all 4.

[CaffeinePowered]

problem is we're all playing in a pub situation and caff is on drugs and keeps crits spread and weapon spread on. scatter rarely does 81 at medium because only 5 of the pellets will hit, compared to shortstop hitting all 4.

No Crits, No Spread, Granary Only, Srs Business 

[Kor]

Black Box and Battalion's Back Up have improved my usual 1.7-2:1 Soldier game to approximately 3-4:1 depending on the map. I've never felt more capable in sustained fights, even with the loss of the shotgun. Who needs the hat, corner peeking SG's still works, so GG at the set bonus.

[Versus]

[quote author=dagrett link=topic=206.msg177115#msg177115 date=1286304343]
problem is we're all playing in a pub situation and caff is on drugs and keeps crits spread and weapon spread on. scatter rarely does 81 at medium because only 5 of the pellets will hit, compared to shortstop hitting all 4.

No Crits, No Spread, Granary Only, Srs Business 
[/quote]

i'm ok with crits but spread is just retarded

[beep beep diglett]

damage and weapon spread do not add anything to the game, removing them only improves fun

[shoopfox]

I'm totally fine with damage and weapon spread now that they've added damage indicators.

[Eschatos]

Well I like spread.  Shotguns aren't supposed to do the same amount of damage every shot.  A little randomness is not going to kill you, unless it does.

[copulatingduck]

Black Box and Battalion's Back Up have improved my usual 1.7-2:1 Soldier game to approximately 3-4:1 depending on the map. I've never felt more capable in sustained fights, even with the loss of the shotgun. Who needs the hat, corner peeking SG's still works, so GG at the set bonus.

whats this set bonus you speak of? is it like in diablo and wow? did valve really bring the rpg to the fps?

[Odin]

Well I like spread.  Shotguns aren't supposed to do the same amount of damage every shot.  A little randomness is not going to kill you, unless it does.

Yup, love lucky-critting someone and telling them to deal with it.

But then Bacon or someone always gets lucky crits back at me and I rage, good old karma.

[Versus]

[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=206.msg177207#msg177207 date=1286331561]
Well I like spread.  Shotguns aren't supposed to do the same amount of damage every shot.  A little randomness is not going to kill you, unless it does.

Yup, love lucky-critting someone and telling them to deal with it.

But then Bacon or someone always gets lucky crits back at me and I rage, good old karma.
[/quote]

this is spread, not crits

also wtf is wrong with a little consistency?