How would you make TF2 better?

[Grimthwacker]

Hmmm. . .  Other than the absurd amount of potentially unbalanced new gear being doled out on a seemingly regular basis now (really, the earlier class updates were a lot better in making new alternates that encouraged different playstyles for people who wanted them), I can't think of anything wrong with TF2 per se.  That said, I would appreciate it if Valve maybe tweaked the stock weapons a bit to make them more viable against some of the other alternates.  Not major stuff like damage increases or special properties, but little things like, I dunno:

- Increasing max ammo capacity or clip size for some weapons; for example, give the Demo's stock Grenade launcher the extra two shots it was supposed to have originally, the default Minigun an extra hundred rounds, and the Scout's Pistol another clip or two.

- Either speed up the Scattergun's reload time (which seems painfully slow when you're caught empty off guard or in the middle of a huge firefight) just a bit, or make it magazine based with a slightly slower fire rate, having the Scout work the action after each shot to eject the spent shell, just like a real lever-action weapon (I know: "Reality?  In MY TF2?!?!")

- Maybe giving the Sniper's SMG a bit of a damage boost (or more ammo) to encourage more people to use it as a backup or mid-range weapon, because almost nobody ever uses it anymore. . .  although it's always good to use that fact to my advantage and catch people off guard when I bust it out and gun 'em down when they're not expecting it.

On the subject of buffing/nerfing some of the alternates:  Tone down the Brass Beast, because even with the speed penalty, the sheer overpowering nature of the weapon kind of negates any downsides; give the Loch n' Load's grenades at least one, at most two bounces before shattering so you can play the angles if you need to; reduce the power of the Sydney Sleeper a bit, because you can easily wreck players with body shots; fix the Dead Ringer so it can't be spammed so easily. . .  honestly the list goes on, so I'll just stop here.

[Benito Mussolini]

- Increasing max ammo capacity or clip size for some weapons; for example, give the Demo's stock Grenade launcher the extra two shots it was supposed to have originally, the default Minigun an extra hundred rounds, and the Scout's Pistol another clip or two.

You MAD?! Give the demo 6 grenades, and you've got a class that's even more powerful than the only attacking class that's already limited in competitive play!
You don't need more grenades, you need to learn to shoot them better.

The rest is really to make sure everyone needs ammo once in a while; so people wouldn't just spam the shit out of everything and make the game even more broken and random.

- Either speed up the Scattergun's reload time (which seems painfully slow when you're caught empty off guard or in the middle of a huge firefight) just a bit, or make it magazine based with a slightly slower fire rate, having the Scout work the action after each shot to eject the spent shell, just like a real lever-action weapon (I know: "Reality?  In MY TF2?!?!")

The scout's reload time is actually pretty fast IMO. Again, spam issues if it gets faster. Also, scouts can (should) jump out of fights he gets in such trouble.

- Maybe giving the Sniper's SMG a bit of a damage boost (or more ammo) to encourage more people to use it as a backup or mid-range weapon, because almost nobody ever uses it anymore. . .  although it's always good to use that fact to my advantage and catch people off guard when I bust it out and gun 'em down when they're not expecting it.

Yeah, give them a flamethrower (degreaser!!!) while you're at it. Snipers should be totally useless at close range.

[Chief]

oh yeah, other things

fix the shortstop (lower ammo, longer reload)
make the demoknight only feasible with charge 'n targe (base: 50 crit: 165) (currently Base: 65 Crit: 195)
eyelander only gives +4% speed increase per head instead of around 8%
direct hit at feet launches enemies higher (i dont know what it is currently, but it should at least make the heavy jump after being hit)
degreaser has either 120 or 150 ammo
gas jockey's gear has +15% damage for boolets
brass beast does less damage as range increases OR brass beast doesnt crit
buffalo steak gives less increased movement speed (to either soldier or demo's speed, not normal speed (pyro/spy)
jag - a lot of changes here
- +35% faster construction rate
- +10% faster swing speed (for every normal wrench swing, jag should swing 1.4)
- -30% damage done
the cuntsman
-base: 30-45 (from 44-58) (0% charge), 85-100 (from 103-137) (100% charge)
Headshot: 120 (from 153) (0% charge), 300 (from 360) (100% charge)
dead ringer always has loud decloak sound, cannot recharge during cloak from ammo

man i was on a role so i just looked at the wiki and wrote down everything that made me rage

[Versus]

(for every normal wrench swing, jag should swing 1.4)

+10% faster swing speed

wat

also make DR louder, also give it a shorter duration imo

stock weapons don't need to be touched at all, if anything most of the stock weapons are simply superior to the unlocks

[Spore]

Take the Dead Ringer into a field and beat it with a bat Office Space style until it has a reduced damage reduction of only fifty percent, the hit that triggers the feign death still does full damage, ammo boxes don't restore it at all, and it restores over time slower. That way spies might actually try to use it to feign death instead of as a personal shield. If all this happens, you can even make it fireproof for all I care.

Oh, and give people reasons to use the stock melee weapons again either through buffing them or nerfing the unlocks. I don't care which.

Edit: And I guess nerf the Degreaser and Shortstop a bit somehow. I don't know how. Just do it.

Edit 2: And make it so that the regular sticky launcher has a small delay before being able to explode it like the Scottish Resistance. That weapon should not be able to be used as offensively as it is. It is for setting traps, cutting off routes, destroying buildings, and creating choke points.

Edit 3: And get rid of set powers. They are stupid and it is impossible to tell if a player has the full set equipped so you can't be certain if they have a set buff or not which goes completely against the battered, old, once religiously followed design philosophy that made TF2 fantastic in the first place.

Edit 4: And drop DX8 support so that you can move TF2 to the newer, much smoother running and prettier versions of Source. Just reimburse the four people that still need it.

[[SiN] Merc]

Take the Dead Ringer into a field and beat it with a bat Office Space style until it has a reduced damage reduction of only fifty percent, the hit that triggers the feign death still does full damage, ammo boxes don't restore it at all, and it restores over time slower. That way spies might actually try to use it to feign death instead of as a personal shield. If all this happens, you can even make it fireproof for all I care.

I'll tell you a story on why that's a bad idea spore!  

      "Hey a rocket is coming, better use my dead ringer!" Merc proclaimed, surprised as a backstab yet again does not register on a hurr durr solider. The heroic spy took the full blunt of the attack, even while triggering his survival sidegrade, eating 100 damage. The solider, clever as he is, proceeded to shoot one more rocket just to be safe, or because he hasn't realized that the spy actually "died," dealing another 50 damage, negating the damage reduction and leaving a bloody stain on the walls of Dustbowl.
       "Golly, what a shitty downgrade to a balanced weapon." Merc stated from the ethereal, waiting to respawn. "Guess I better play something that has constant damage reduction and the ability to exploit it, like heavy."

But I will say this:

Oh, and give people reasons to use the stock melee weapons again either through buffing them or nerfing the unlocks. I don't care which.

Agreed 100% on that bud. Aside from the fists, because those have TAUNT KILL POWAH!

Edit: And I guess nerf the Degreaser and Shortstop a bit somehow. I don't know how. Just do it.

Airblasts don't minicrit anymore, and the Shortstop has a slightly longer reload time. Bang, I make it look easy!

[Spore]

Merc link=topic=5338.msg191555#msg191555 date=1294637902]
[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg191551#msg191551 date=1294636979]
Take the Dead Ringer into a field and beat it with a bat Office Space style until it has a reduced damage reduction of only fifty percent, the hit that triggers the feign death still does full damage, ammo boxes don't restore it at all, and it restores over time slower. That way spies might actually try to use it to feign death instead of as a personal shield. If all this happens, you can even make it fireproof for all I care.

I'll tell you a story on why that's a bad idea spore!  

      "Hey a rocket is coming, better use my dead ringer!" Merc proclaimed, surprised as a backstab yet again does not register on a hurr durr solider. The heroic spy took the full blunt of the attack, even while triggering his survival sidegrade, eating 100 damage. The solider, clever as he is, proceeded to shoot one more rocket just to be safe, or because he hasn't realized that the spy actually "died," dealing another 50 damage, negating the damage reduction and leaving a bloody stain on the walls of Dustbowl.
       "Golly, what a shitty downgrade to a balanced weapon." Merc stated from the ethereal, waiting to respawn. "Guess I better play something that has constant damage reduction and the ability to exploit it, like heavy."
[/quote]

You know, two of the three watches just live with this and avoid it by being nimble and navigating in a hard to predict way around the landscape. And they flicker when hit. I think it would be just fine.

[[SiN] Merc]

[quote author=[SiN] Merc link=topic=5338.msg191555#msg191555 date=1294637902]
[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg191551#msg191551 date=1294636979]
Take the Dead Ringer into a field and beat it with a bat Office Space style until it has a reduced damage reduction of only fifty percent, the hit that triggers the feign death still does full damage, ammo boxes don't restore it at all, and it restores over time slower. That way spies might actually try to use it to feign death instead of as a personal shield. If all this happens, you can even make it fireproof for all I care.

I'll tell you a story on why that's a bad idea spore!  

      "Hey a rocket is coming, better use my dead ringer!" Merc proclaimed, surprised as a backstab yet again does not register on a hurr durr solider. The heroic spy took the full blunt of the attack, even while triggering his survival sidegrade, eating 100 damage. The solider, clever as he is, proceeded to shoot one more rocket just to be safe, or because he hasn't realized that the spy actually "died," dealing another 50 damage, negating the damage reduction and leaving a bloody stain on the walls of Dustbowl.
       "Golly, what a shitty downgrade to a balanced weapon." Merc stated from the ethereal, waiting to respawn. "Guess I better play something that has constant damage reduction and the ability to exploit it, like heavy."
[/quote]

You know, two of the three watches just live with this and avoid it by being nimble and navigating in a hard to predict way around the landscape. And they flicker when hit. I think it would be just fine.
[/quote]

Their strength is the ability to pick and choose their fights, with DR, you have to force your way through groups, hence the need for high end damage reduction and ammo fill up.

[Hobospartan]

The dead ringer made me a semi-competent spy.

That enough is proof of it's brokenness.

[Spore]

Fine 60 percent damage reduction on first hit and subsequent hits. Once you're hit, your goal should be to find a place of prolonged safety.

[[SiN] Merc]

Fine 60 percent damage reduction on first hit and subsequent hits. Once you're hit, your goal should be to find a place of prolonged safety.

Deal. Now let's get rid of random crits, and I'm a happy camper.

[Benito Mussolini]

I don't think either that the proper downside to "being nearly invinsible (or 60% reduction) and invisible for 10 seconds" would be "you cannot cloak exactly as much as you would want".

Make the spy take 2% of the damage on the first hit, OK. But he should not be unkillable even when the other team know exactly where he is going and when he is surrounded by like 5 people: he definitely failed somewhere as a spy and he doesn't deserve to survive.

Don't make him flash when hit, I don't mind, but please let those 8 stickies kill him.

[Spore]

Merc link=topic=5338.msg191562#msg191562 date=1294638975]
[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg191561#msg191561 date=1294638936]
Fine 60 percent damage reduction on first hit and subsequent hits. Once you're hit, your goal should be to find a place of prolonged safety.

Deal. Now let's get rid of random crits, and I'm a happy camper.
[/quote]

[Didzo]

Make the spy take 2% of the damage on the first hit, OK. But he should not be unkillable even when the other team know exactly where he is going and when he is surrounded by like 5 people: he definitely failed somewhere as a spy and he doesn't deserve to survive.

Don't make him flash when hit, I don't mind, but please let those 8 stickies kill him.

Truth.

[[SiN] Merc]

I don't think either that the proper downside to "being nearly invinsible (or 60% reduction) and invisible for 10 seconds" would be "you cannot cloak exactly as much as you would want".

Make the spy take 2% of the damage on the first hit, OK. But he should not be unkillable even when the other team know exactly where he is going and when he is surrounded by like 5 people: he definitely failed somewhere as a spy and he doesn't deserve to survive.

Don't make him flash when hit, I don't mind, but please let those 8 stickies kill him.

Wait 6.5 seconds, have one person kill him then. It's just a matter of waiting, if you know where's he's going.

And you take 20% of the damage on the first hit.

[Didzo]

Merc link=topic=5338.msg191567#msg191567 date=1294641418]
[quote author=Benito link=topic=5338.msg191563#msg191563 date=1294639091]
I don't think either that the proper downside to "being nearly invinsible (or 60% reduction) and invisible for 10 seconds" would be "you cannot cloak exactly as much as you would want".

Make the spy take 2% of the damage on the first hit, OK. But he should not be unkillable even when the other team know exactly where he is going and when he is surrounded by like 5 people: he definitely failed somewhere as a spy and he doesn't deserve to survive.

Don't make him flash when hit, I don't mind, but please let those 8 stickies kill him.

Wait 6.5 seconds, have one person kill him then. It's just a matter of waiting, if you know where's he's going.

And you take 20% of the damage on the first hit.
[/quote]

In those 6.5 seconds, reinforcements show up and the spy escapes behind the spam, surviving to kill again.

[beep beep diglett]

spies dont actually deserve 6 seconds of nigh invulnerability for getting hit, hth

[Versus]

spies dont actually deserve 6 seconds of nigh invulnerability for getting hit, hth

[Neonie]

This entire thread is dedicated to making TF2 a comp ready game. TF2 is not, and does not need to be a comp ready game, since like Caff said, it's about who you play with on what server, the game could be UNDENIABLY BALANCED AND CRITS COULD BE TAKEN OUT AND EVERYTHING COULD BE REVERTED BACK BEFORE ALL THE UPDATES and it wouldn't mean a mother fucking thing cause everyone would of stopped playing THREE YEARS AGO.

It's not a serious game, it's not supposed to be.

[Didzo]

This entire thread is dedicated to making TF2 a comp ready game. TF2 is not, and does not need to be a comp ready game, since like Caff said, it's about who you play with on what server, the game could be UNDENIABLY BALANCED AND CRITS COULD BE TAKEN OUT AND EVERYTHING COULD BE REVERTED BACK BEFORE ALL THE UPDATES and it wouldn't mean a mother fucking thing cause everyone would of stopped playing THREE YEARS AGO.

It's not a serious game, it's not supposed to be.

Stop trolling.