How would you make TF2 better?

[Spore]

And I'd make it so that reflecting midair stickies actually did something like make them automatically detonate upon hitting the ground or an enemy.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Don't forget that if you did it right, you could get it into their spawn, caff

[Kirby]

Karrde link=topic=5338.msg191907#msg191907 date=1294851024]
Don't forget that if you did it right, you could get it into their spawn, caff

That was farking tricky to pull off.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

True.  Never did it myself, but I've seen it

[PyroZombie]

more weapons.

for mercenaries under a nigh-endless budget, the munition supply is lacking.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Thought of something that might be a decent nerf to the DR without affecting its overall function.  What about once the DR is activated, for each successive hit you take, some of your damage reduction is lost, thus rewarding the player who accurately tracks your movement.  Rewards the skill of the attacking player while forcing the spy to have good evasion skills.  This would include flamethrower, which would burn down a DR spy quickly (though not quite as quickly as without), thus reestablishing the pyro as a credible threat.

[CaffeinePowered]

Karrde link=topic=5338.msg192162#msg192162 date=1295011292]
Thought of something that might be a decent nerf to the DR without affecting its overall function.  What about once the DR is activated, for each successive hit you take, some of your damage reduction is lost, thus rewarding the player who accurately tracks your movement.  Rewards the skill of the attacking player while forcing the spy to have good evasion skills.  This would include flamethrower, which would burn down a DR spy quickly (though not quite as quickly as without), thus reestablishing the pyro as a credible threat.

I said something similar to this, but damage would drain the cloak, this could also work, also even with the DR as it stands now flames are still a very credible threat as an airblast pyro is just going to corner the spy and axe them.

[Kirby]

Karrde link=topic=5338.msg192162#msg192162 date=1295011292]
Thought of something that might be a decent nerf to the DR without affecting its overall function.  What about once the DR is activated, for each successive hit you take, some of your damage reduction is lost, thus rewarding the player who accurately tracks your movement.

I propose a scaling proportional to your cloak bar of the damage resistance this way random spam wouldn't ruin the DR and make it worthless but if you were so unsubtle that they followed you the whole way you deserve to die.

[Spore]

And the Degreaser would only have 100 ammo because the primary method of attack with it is a small puff of fire followed by an axe or maybe one airblast. This would make it so that it would be harder to airblast abuse with it and give airblasters a very good reason to still use the default flamethrower.

Edit: And I'm thinking perhaps only the default melee weapons should be able to get random crits, but I'm not sure quite how well that would pan out.

[CaffeinePowered]

Edit: And I'm thinking perhaps only the default melee weapons should be able to get random crits, but I'm not sure quite how well that would pan out.

Would make the shovel a lot more appealing

[Eightball]

Edit: And I'm thinking perhaps only the default melee weapons should be able to get random crits, but I'm not sure quite how well that would pan out.

I'm all for this, simply for the fact that the equalizer would no longer be able to over 300 damage, ever.

[Kirby]

And the Degreaser would only have 100 ammo because the primary method of attack with it is a small puff of fire followed by an axe or maybe one airblast. This would make it so that it would be harder to airblast abuse with it and give airblasters a very good reason to still use the default flamethrower.

What? That's absolutely retarded.

Airblast abuse with it? What the fuck is "airblast abuse"? Being better at reflecting rocket spam than the soldier/demo is at doing the spamming?

Sounds like you're just mad pyros can defeat solly/demo spam 100% of the time given enough skill.

You know, instead of what it used to be, with a demo or soldier just being able to hold down fire and be guaranteed 50% of your shots get thru.

[Versus]

or you know, the two big offensive damage dealers negated by someone holding mouse2

airblast is the dumbest thing in tf2 except for the current state of the dead ringer

[Didzo]

I have yet to see a pyro reflect a shotgun.

[Hobospartan]

I have yet to see a pyro reflect a shotgun.

http://www.tf2items.com/id/TheDarkChief/

Second page

[Spore]

[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg192541#msg192541 date=1295290020]
And the Degreaser would only have 100 ammo because the primary method of attack with it is a small puff of fire followed by an axe or maybe one airblast. This would make it so that it would be harder to airblast abuse with it and give airblasters a very good reason to still use the default flamethrower.

What? That's absolutely retarded.

Airblast abuse with it? What the fuck is "airblast abuse"? Being better at reflecting rocket spam than the soldier/demo is at doing the spamming?

Sounds like you're just mad pyros can defeat solly/demo spam 100% of the time given enough skill.

You know, instead of what it used to be, with a demo or soldier just being able to hold down fire and be guaranteed 50% of your shots get thru.
[/quote]

Holy fucking rage. I'm saying Degreaser Pyro's shouldn't be able to airblast or use flames as much because they shouldn't need them due to their incredibly fast axetinguisher combo. This also gives people incentive to use the flamethrower that was pretty much made obsolete with the Degreaser. Calm down.

[Kirby]

or you know, the two big offensive damage dealers negated by someone holding mouse2

airblast headshots when crosshair is a mile away from the head is the dumbest thing in tf2 except for the current state of facestabs and the huntsman

Fixed.


Hold mouse2 and you get the 1st rocket or pipe, no more. The recycle times do not line up and you will miss more than you would with the old airblast recycle time and fixed incoming volley times.


I get a kick out of it when people say airblast is stupid. Just mad that pyros can fight with "the two big offensive damage dealers" pound for pound now at longer ranges than the flamethrower allows, instead of just being able to DPS your way thru their HP for the win. Best part is you get really extra super mad because it's your own projectile doing the killing, so you say it's stupid.

Holy fucking rage. I'm saying Degreaser Pyro's shouldn't be able to airblast or use flames as much because they shouldn't need them due to their incredibly fast axetinguisher combo. This also gives people incentive to use the flamethrower that was pretty much made obsolete with the Degreaser. Calm down.

Pyro is running around doing his thing, all of a sudden; OH SHIT, SOLLY. ROCKET <reflect> ROCKET. <reflect> ROCKET. <miss> ROCKET. <fssht> Now he's out of ammo, and "because he doesn't need it due to the incredibly fast axetinguisher combo" he's left without that ability completely.

[Spore]

[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg192564#msg192564 date=1295299987]
Holy fucking rage. I'm saying Degreaser Pyro's shouldn't be able to airblast or use flames as much because they shouldn't need them due to their incredibly fast axetinguisher combo. This also gives people incentive to use the flamethrower that was pretty much made obsolete with the Degreaser. Calm down.

Pyro is running around doing his thing, all of a sudden; OH SHIT, SOLLY. ROCKET <reflect> ROCKET. <reflect> ROCKET. <miss> ROCKET. <fssht> Now he's out of ammo, and "because he doesn't need it due to the incredibly fast axetinguisher combo" he's left without that ability completely.
[/quote]

So, the intelligent Pyro says, "Gee golly, there are a lot of soldiers. It's time to switch to the normal flamethrower which is now a viable weapon with its 200 ammo because this Degreaser, which is still a perfectly capable weapon in dozens of other situations, isn't making the cut here. Good thing I have options to change my strategy." Currently, the Degreaser is the end all, bone-fide, definitive flamethrower. I'm trying to make the other ones have their place too. You can't just throw a single situation where my idea of a revised Degreaser doesn't work so well and say "YOU SEE IT AM NOT WORK", because all the weapons are supposed to have their faults. This is how the game was originally designed. It's up to the player to pick their weapon and know when it is best and when it is risky.

[Chief]

[quote author=Didzo link=topic=5338.msg192556#msg192556 date=1295294629]
I have yet to see a pyro reflect a shotgun.

http://www.tf2items.com/id/TheDarkChief/

Second page
[/quote]story of my life


but the degreaser does need a nerf - for a weapon that does what a normal flamethrower can do but better (because no one really gives a shit about flames anymore, ill get into that later), it needs to take a nerf in either a. airblast fire delay, b. decrease ammo, or c. increase airblast consumption of ammo

now about the flames, honestly no one cares about that factor anymore except for spies or finishing people off by like using up only 20 ammo. flames for spies - you need anywhere from 5-50 to effectively find a cloaked spy if they are in a radius around the person. to finish off a person, the afterburn does 3-5 damage for something like 10 seconds, which is 30-50, which is generally 1/3 of everyone's health except for select classes, obviously. without a doubt, a pyro will be able to get a good amount of damage just by holding m1 in the enemies general direction, dealing more damage depending on how close they are. luckily for tf2, there are things called health packs.

if you remember from a few months ago, there was a point where i was absolutely frustrated with airblasts. i conducted a few experiments with my good friend dicklett, and here's two pictures from that night that summed up my anger: http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3828/98094250.png and http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/9219/19946692.png
i just basically think that the airblast is too large, or because of the lack of optimization from valve has grown to appear and be more dangerous to any sort of projectile. once they added in that mini-crit, it basically confirmed that it should be a skilled player that is able to pull of a airblast to get the rewards of doing so - not some random airblast that just so happens to be at the right moment, which end ups in a soldier/demo kill because it deals 150 damage, and adding on afterburn and the likely damage just from holding the mouse, that's obviously a easy kill for the pyro


airblast needs to be smaller (you've all seen this before) and the degreaser needs a pro and a con, not reducing afterburn (oh btw, it doesnt matter because some weapons reduce it to 1-2 damage per second or increase it further (see the southern hospitality))

also, kirby's mad because he cant ignore the fact that either a. poor optimization gives the pyro some sort of advantage or b. pyro always has an advantage unless its against a heavy or sniper who doesnt use the cuntsman

[beep beep diglett]

[quote author=Kirby, the Spyro link=topic=5338.msg192566#msg192566 date=1295305607]
[quote author=Spore link=topic=5338.msg192564#msg192564 date=1295299987]
Holy fucking rage. I'm saying Degreaser Pyro's shouldn't be able to airblast or use flames as much because they shouldn't need them due to their incredibly fast axetinguisher combo. This also gives people incentive to use the flamethrower that was pretty much made obsolete with the Degreaser. Calm down.

Pyro is running around doing his thing, all of a sudden; OH SHIT, SOLLY. ROCKET <reflect> ROCKET. <reflect> ROCKET. <miss> ROCKET. <fssht> Now he's out of ammo, and "because he doesn't need it due to the incredibly fast axetinguisher combo" he's left without that ability completely.
[/quote]

So, the intelligent Pyro says, "Gee golly, there are a lot of soldiers. It's time to switch to the normal flamethrower which is now a viable weapon with its 200 ammo because this Degreaser, which is still a perfectly capable weapon in dozens of other situations, isn't making the cut here. Good thing I have options to change my strategy." Currently, the Degreaser is the end all, bone-fide, definitive flamethrower. I'm trying to make the other ones have their place too. You can't just throw a single situation where my idea of a revised Degreaser doesn't work so well and say "YOU SEE IT AM NOT WORK", because all the weapons are supposed to have their faults. This is how the game was originally designed. It's up to the player to pick their weapon and know when it is best and when it is risky.
[/quote]

the problem with pyro is his default weapons are all shit. he's been buffed through items to the point where shit like the powerjack, which would be op on ANY OTHER CLASS, is worthless because of how good axtinguisher is. he's become balanced around an unlock, which is stupid. not everyone has it, and it makes every other melee obsolete. they should just add minicrits on burning enemies to the default axe, maybe it would open up more options