BRBMGTSFAD '08 aka Get a Backburner or lose.

[rumsfald]

note to self: if you wanna have epic threads, do it while ScottyG is sleeping.  In before lock...

[ScottyGrayskull]

note to self: if you wanna have epic threads, do it while ScottyG is sleeping.  In before lock...

Feh. Kor's an admin, and he made the thread. If he wants to close it he can. Personally I don't think it requires closing as it is now.

And PS, I never sleep. :'(

[Surf314]

I think the end of this thread is that it wasn't something thought about when the rules were made and now it is and now we have a way to deal with it.  Everyone needs a chance to vent from time to time because everyone hates losing when they feel the other team has an advantage.

Hell when we had a shit load of soldiers running at me I was going to yell OMG HAX but we were doing well and so it didn't bother me.  Plus they really didn't know so it wasn't like it was intentional.  Same with backburner, I don't think anyone has really given it much thought till now.

[Eschatos]

Hey, if both teams are using it, I don't see an issue.  If if it is unbalanced it's unbalanced equally for everyone.  But if it makes you guys happy I'd be fine to switch to regular flamethrower.

[Eschatos]

Anyone want to get on a plugin that disables the health provided but allows the backstab mechanic :|

I hate the backburner so fucking much, was supposed to reward the pyro for ambushing, not give them the ability to run into a crowd and hold down mouse1. At least before you would get juggled and promptly killed if you tried to run straight at a soldier.

Fuck that.  Keep the +50 health and get rid of the back crits.

[Geoff]

I had no problems gibbing Vandam every time  ;D

[ScottyGrayskull]

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=917.msg23680#msg23680 date=1216694203]
Anyone want to get on a plugin that disables the health provided but allows the backstab mechanic :|

I hate the backburner so fucking much, was supposed to reward the pyro for ambushing, not give them the ability to run into a crowd and hold down mouse1. At least before you would get juggled and promptly killed if you tried to run straight at a soldier.

Fuck that.  Keep the +50 health and get rid of the back crits.
[/quote]

Or maybe get rid of the guaranteed back crits, and instead just maybe make them a little more likely? Don't know the exact number, but if there's a 5% chance of crits normally maybe make the backburner 10%-15% for back crits.

/shrugs

[Surf314]

I'd rather keep the back crits and lose the health bonus.

[CaffeinePowered]

I'd rather keep the back crits and lose the health bonus.

This is what I think it should be, backburner for defense and ambush, airblast for offense. Now, you have a pyro with more health than the soldier, that just utterly ridiculous. Soldier is supposed to be the second heaviest class in the game. You shouldn't have to pump more than 2 direct rocket hits into any class except the heavy.

Why do you think now on some servers they've all the sudden enabled pyro class limits?

Why do you think our servers have a limit of 3 pyros and that the limit has not been lifted since the update?

They now make up the bulk of a team, where they aren't meant to be a class that was supposed to do that, any time you have everyone consistently picking an imbalanced number of a class and winning with it, theres a problem.


I hope valve does something soon, otherwise Im going to start looking into a plug-in to reset the max health to 175. (Oh and its possible)

[Eschatos]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=917.msg23809#msg23809 date=1216739139]
I'd rather keep the back crits and lose the health bonus.

This is what I think it should be, backburner for defense and ambush, airblast for offense. Now, you have a pyro with more health than the soldier, that just utterly ridiculous. Soldier is supposed to be the second heaviest class in the game. You shouldn't have to pump more than 2 direct rocket hits into any class except the heavy.
[/quote]

I think you have it backwards.  Backburner is intended for offense, airblast for defence.

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=917.msg23818#msg23818 date=1216742679]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=917.msg23809#msg23809 date=1216739139]
I'd rather keep the back crits and lose the health bonus.

This is what I think it should be, backburner for defense and ambush, airblast for offense. Now, you have a pyro with more health than the soldier, that just utterly ridiculous. Soldier is supposed to be the second heaviest class in the game. You shouldn't have to pump more than 2 direct rocket hits into any class except the heavy.
[/quote]

I think you have it backwards.  Backburner is intended for offense, airblast for defence.
[/quote]

Negative son, airblast is for reflecting rockets and pipes, this is best used on offense.

Ref: Pushing back spam that flies at the cart on PL maps, Any Dustbowl style map

CTF is a bit of a grey area, but in general pushing away rockets and pipes is still more offensive role, gets pipes off the flag. How are you supposed to AMBUSH people in their own base. You dont, you ambush them in your own base, which is what the BB is supposed to reward since you don't have a cloak to get behind people like the spy.

If you and other pyros think its for being an offensive tank it shows just how broke it actually is, anyway I should start a new thread for just this since we're pretty much done here for the purposes of the tourney

[Surf314]

Airblast can be used defensively in conjunction with a sentry, that is it's only real defensive role.  That said it is super effective for this.

[Dave]

since im obnoxious AND arrogant the rules stand, bitch all you want.

[ainmosni]

I think the meaning of the extra health was for the pyro to actually survive where before he would always have a suicide run. The airblast is also something which can help you stay alive a lot better.

I've played pyro a lot before and after the update and I would say I'm pretty good at it... The problem before the update was that you where soldier fodder, every fucking time. You burnt soldier, soldier killed you and to add insult to injury, killed himself so you didn't even get a point for it... Now with the airblast you can deflect rockets and other projectiles and push people away. But with the backburner you still have to get up close and personal and gives you that risk of being suicide bombed by a soldier again. The extra health at least gives you a chance to stay alive there.

Everybody was whining before the update that the pyro was a useless class and now that the pyro becomes a viable class people who liked the pyro as target practice are whining as well... Yes the BB pyro has more health than a soldier but that pyro has to get a lot closer to his target than the soldier has because the soldier at least has some range.

I don't think the backburner is OP'ed compared to the normal flamer, they're just different and ask for different tactics to play with them and also to deal with them... Essentially the pyro is now two different classes depending on the outfit he has.

Personally I switch between them... I use the airblast if I'm on a team that communicates a lot because then it _really_ gets into its own, especially for the team. If the team is a lot more individual... I go backburner and take all the backroutes so that I can flank the opponents but even that is mostly hit and run... The extra health makes me able to get out there alive... Tanking pyros are so easily taken out by a good demo, soldier, heavy or even a scout or medic that keeps out of the pyros range while peppering him with shots.

OTOH: I'm all for limits on the pyro class because too much is too much and isn't fun at all...


tl;dr version: Yeah, the pyro got stronger, he needed that. But with some tactics changes he can still be handled quite easily.

About the crits in the tournament: Yah this is a bit harder to say, it's a situational crit which is why it stays on... TBH I wish the kritz would work with criticals off, that would make it an awesome and tactical alternative... It's too late to change the rules now but we should think about this for other tournaments (and also see what the other updates bring...)

[NiceGuy]

I think the meaning of the extra health was for the pyro to actually survive where before he would always have a suicide run. The airblast is also something which can help you stay alive a lot better.

I've played pyro a lot before and after the update and I would say I'm pretty good at it... The problem before the update was that you where soldier fodder, every fucking time. You burnt soldier, soldier killed you and to add insult to injury, killed himself so you didn't even get a point for it... Now with the airblast you can deflect rockets and other projectiles and push people away. But with the backburner you still have to get up close and personal and gives you that risk of being suicide bombed by a soldier again. The extra health at least gives you a chance to stay alive there.

Everybody was whining before the update that the pyro was a useless class and now that the pyro becomes a viable class people who liked the pyro as target practice are whining as well... Yes the BB pyro has more health than a soldier but that pyro has to get a lot closer to his target than the soldier has because the soldier at least has some range.

I don't think the backburner is OP'ed compared to the normal flamer, they're just different and ask for different tactics to play with them and also to deal with them... Essentially the pyro is now two different classes depending on the outfit he has.

Personally I switch between them... I use the airblast if I'm on a team that communicates a lot because then it _really_ gets into its own, especially for the team. If the team is a lot more individual... I go backburner and take all the backroutes so that I can flank the opponents but even that is mostly hit and run... The extra health makes me able to get out there alive... Tanking pyros are so easily taken out by a good demo, soldier, heavy or even a scout or medic that keeps out of the pyros range while peppering him with shots.

OTOH: I'm all for limits on the pyro class because too much is too much and isn't fun at all...


tl;dr version: Yeah, the pyro got stronger, he needed that. But with some tactics changes he can still be handled quite easily.

About the crits in the tournament: Yah this is a bit harder to say, it's a situational crit which is why it stays on... TBH I wish the kritz would work with criticals off, that would make it an awesome and tactical alternative... It's too late to change the rules now but we should think about this for other tournaments (and also see what the other updates bring...)

QFT

[dapngwnman]

You know what is really overpowered? Spectator.

I mean he can see EVERYTHING that is going on. AT ALL TIMES.

And you can have MORE of them. It is like having almost 16 gods on the server.

We can't have that many people playing the same class. OP OMG BAN SPECTATORS LO!LOLO!!LOL

<3 pyros

[Geoff]

You know what is really overpowered? Spectator.

I mean he can see EVERYTHING that is going on. AT ALL TIMES.

And you can have MORE of them. It is like having almost 16 gods on the server.

We can't have that many people playing the same class. OP OMG BAN SPECTATORS LO!LOLO!!LOL

<3 pyros

YEAH I NO RITE.  SRSLY YOU CAN'T EVEN KILL THEM AND THEY HAVE AUTO AIM WICH GOES THROUGH THE WALLS.

[copulatingduck]

[quote author=dapngwnman link=topic=917.msg23860#msg23860 date=1216754516]
You know what is really overpowered? Spectator.

I mean he can see EVERYTHING that is going on. AT ALL TIMES.

And you can have MORE of them. It is like having almost 16 gods on the server.

We can't have that many people playing the same class. OP OMG BAN SPECTATORS LO!LOLO!!LOL

<3 pyros

YEAH I NO RITE.  SRSLY YOU CAN'T EVEN KILL THEM AND THEY HAVE AUTO AIM WICH GOES THROUGH THE WALLS.
[/quote]

Actually, for a while after the pyro updates, you could kill spectators.

Proof

[ainmosni]

[quote author=Geoff link=topic=917.msg23862#msg23862 date=1216755024]
[quote author=dapngwnman link=topic=917.msg23860#msg23860 date=1216754516]
You know what is really overpowered? Spectator.

I mean he can see EVERYTHING that is going on. AT ALL TIMES.

And you can have MORE of them. It is like having almost 16 gods on the server.

We can't have that many people playing the same class. OP OMG BAN SPECTATORS LO!LOLO!!LOL

<3 pyros

Wow, awesome glitch there. Funny to see it made with brbu people as well...

YEAH I NO RITE.  SRSLY YOU CAN'T EVEN KILL THEM AND THEY HAVE AUTO AIM WICH GOES THROUGH THE WALLS.
[/quote]

Actually, for a while after the pyro updates, you could kill spectators.

Proof
[/quote]

[CaffeinePowered]

Ain, did you ever consider for a moment, that maybe the soldier is supposed to counter the pyro, sort of like how the pyro counters the spy, the medic counters engineers, and the sniper counters heavies.

How would you feel if next update the spy got a flame retardant jacket so you couldn't lite him on fire anymore. They pyro should not have that much health, unless you are a very skilled soldier, you no longer beat the pyro. A complete reversal of what its supposed to be, the airburst is what valve added so you can close the gap with soldiers. Now you have a tank that runs faster than a soldier with a buffed weapon (damage wise), overheal it and it has more health than a standard heavy, walks twice as fast, and has the same effective range.