ctf_2docks beta 4 feedback

[gunbeard]

TF2 Tuesday's playtest of ctf_2docks_beta4 was a big deal for me as I designed the map myself (1stmapevar), so if you have any feedback please post it here.

Any helpful advice about what to change for the next beta would be great:  Does it need more detail and if so, where?  Are more obstacles needed in a certain place?  Stuff like that.

The next beta is being worked on, so your advice/feedback will be a big help.

EDIT:  For those who do not know, CTF_2DOCKS_BETA4 was MAP #4 on TF2 TUESDAY 7/22/08

[Geoff]

Was this the Krusty Krab map? 

[CaffeinePowered]

For a first map it was really good  :o

Most detail areas that I noticed were in the middle, especially around stairways, they were just blocks going up.

Take a look at the stairs in valve maps and they have alternating textures and some more supports (depending on the type). I could always run though the map and post some screenshots

[gunbeard]

yah i spent the least time on stairs.  i'll go through some valve maps and get some basic brushwork tips there.  if you want to get screenies go for it and i'll credit you in the readme along with a link to this forum community.

[Geoff]

Oh, perhaps an underwater tunnel.  And moar spongebob.

[Surf314]

It was really interesting.  The layout was very confusing at first but got easier as time went on.  It seemed pretty balanced.  It helped when I got a sense of the map spatially (it's U right?).  Aesthetically there is too much brown, although brown does suit it it gets overwhelming at times, like playing a doom level.  I liked how there was a maze under the water, but some places it was way too hard to get out, dunno if this was intentional.  If not it could help to have a small wall extend down from the holes to give you something to clip against while getting out.

[gunbeard]

1. It helped when I got a sense of the map spatially (it's U right?).
2. it could help to have a small wall extend down from the holes to give you something to clip against while getting out.

1.  yeah it's a U shape with side routes connecting the dots, basically.

2. it can be hard to get out of the holes, so i may make some kind of cage ladder thing to make it more of a maintenance hatch than just a random hole.

Oh, perhaps an underwater tunnel.

I'll hunt you down.

[Geoff]

I'll hunt you down.

wut i do

[gunbeard]

FOUR underwater tunnels.  four of them!  actually.. maybe i overdid it on the underwater.  and the color brown.

[CaffeinePowered]

FOUR underwater tunnels.  four of them!  actually.. maybe i overdid it on the underwater.  and the color brown.

Well maybe for the brown, use red/blue wood to break up the textures, maybe stripes, different colors for supporting beams, ect.

Helps break up the colors and it tells players immediately what side of the map they are on

[Surf314]

[quote author=gunbeard link=topic=931.msg24041#msg24041 date=1216832479]
FOUR underwater tunnels.  four of them!   actually.. maybe i overdid it on the underwater.  and the color brown.

Well maybe for the brown, use red/blue wood to break up the textures, maybe stripes, different colors for supporting beams, ect.

Helps break up the colors and it tells players immediately what side of the map they are on
[/quote]

Agreed, and I <3 the underwater part of the map.  Plus it works with the 2docks theme.  If you get rid of any of it I will be upset.  I especially liked when I got stuck in a dead end behind a set of stairs, I was like OH FUCK!

One additional point is that while underwater it was insanely hard to see some of the openings to go up.  If you did a ladder or something that could solve that problem, but you might want to think about putting some red/blue lights (if possible) to mark them as well as let you know which side of the map you will come up on.  This will help greatly but also make the underwater much more straight forward and I kinda liked that it was a maze.  Maybe work both elements together where the most advantageous exits are hard to find/unmarked while the bulk of them are easy to find/exit.

[gunbeard]

this stuff is gold, thanks.  i'm definitely adding recognizers to each side's underwater tunnels to make them easier to spot, and improving the holes themselves with the aforementioned maintenance hatch ladder type thingy and either lit overlays or colored lighting, whichever works best.

the color issue will be trickier i think, figuring out where to retexture.  i'll post screenies here if anyone wants to be kept up to date on changes.

[Geoff]

this stuff is gold, thanks.  i'm definitely adding recognizers to each side's underwater tunnels to make them easier to spot, and improving the holes themselves with the aforementioned maintenance hatch ladder type thingy and either lit overlays or colored lighting, whichever works best.

the color issue will be trickier i think, figuring out where to retexture.  i'll post screenies here if anyone wants to be kept up to date on changes.

I was kidding about that, but I will have to say that I over looked them more than once.  Brown + Brown water = Camo

[Negate]

This map needs what all maps need, good labeling of where to go. You want to prevent people getting lost as much as possible. It was a good map though. Only one real way to the intel once you got there though. It would be hard to put another way in though so It'll probably have to stay that way.

[Surf314]

This map needs what all maps need, good labeling of where to go. You want to prevent people getting lost as much as possible. It was a good map though. Only one real way to the intel once you got there though. It would be hard to put another way in though so It'll probably have to stay that way.

The scouts can cross wherever, and scouts or supposed to be intel runners anyway.  But maybe you could have something going up from the water...nothing easy though.  Also in some areas the labeling was really good.  It just needs more.

[Versus]

negate, you forgot a "though" at the end of that last sentence.

[gunbeard]

Only one real way to the intel once you got there though.

Yeah.. I've pretty much decided not to add any more routes to the intel.  It's so tempting to add a whole bunch more (using the closed door with the fuel tanks & red light as an alt. route, for example), but really it might pay off just to finalize the 2docks layout and save the other good ideas for a new map.  I think/hope that some simplicity will be a good thing for this one, considering the layout learning curve.  That's what the central tunnel was supposed to provide.  A simple and violent solution for getting from one base to the other.

Also in some areas the labeling was really good.  It just needs more.

Thanks, and yes it does need more.  On the editor it always looks like too much labelling but in-game it's quite the opposite.  I need to quit being so hesitant with the signs.

[Negate]

OOH you need to make the elevator in spawn work and go somewhere.

[Geoff]

OOH you need to make the elevator in spawn work and go somewhere.

ala Willy wonka's glass elevator.

[CaffeinePowered]

OOH you need to make the elevator in spawn work and go somewhere.

Speaking of that I think you need some sign in spawn showing people where to stick the teleporter.