Backburner FIXED! Health bonus removed.

[Dave]

what your forgetting is that a BB pyro isnt meant to have an edge over the CA pyro, the new weapons arent meant to be an upgrade, there meant to be a different style of play and valve would like to see a balance between both weapons being used.

[Surf314]

Hell yea, now I can use the BB without people bitching.  I was one of the few people that used the flame thrower exactly as the BB is used but before the update.  Also when I use the AB I don't want to get killed by someone using the BB just because they have a health bonus.

[ainmosni]

Unstickied this thread as it will keep near the top for as long as it will be relevant anyway...

*Uses airblast*

[Scary Womanizing Pig Mask]

Nice going Valve! I'm glad I can now use it guilt free  ^_^

[Panda]

The health was the best part =(

I'd trade the 50 health for the crits any day of the week.  Not getting insta-gibbed by explosives was pretty nice for pyro, I actually got to burn people before getting mauled on smaller maps.

[ktj]

WOOOOOHOOOOO PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!







Fixed grenades, rockets, and flamethrower being able to fire through grates at round starts

...

Ok party is over
Go to your homes.
Dogs will be released in five minutes.

[Ceceil Felias]

Well, my counterpyro shotgunning spree is over. But then again, I bet a lot of pyros are over in general.

Back to normal, I guess.

[REDjackeT]

[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1005.msg26057#msg26057 date=1217393262]
what the should have done to compensate is make the bb have a little more range on the ft to give it an edge over the ab

You don't think crit backs are enough? Bb gets the drop on a normal pyro and there's not much they can do, besides air blast and run from the incoming shotgun fire...
[/quote]
I was just thinking... and actually, no.  They probably aren't enough.  Probably meaning: "I need to play more because I generally don't like to spew out random nonsense if I can avoid it."

The reason I'm tossing that out there right now, before I've played more, is mainly because I look at the selling points of the AB:
Reflect Rockets, Grenades, Stickies, Flares; Push People (active ability, consumes 25 ammo, minor CD between AB's/Flame use)
Random Criticals

and then I look at the BB:
100% Criticals from behind (limited arc)

My main concern is similar to others before, that the AB wasn't good enough compaired to the BB and now it's the other way around.  That arguement was subjective, and so is mine.  Still, I can't help but wonder if it is balanced enough.  I'm not saying the 50hp should come back, but maybe a minor tweak is in order for the BB.  Maybe.  I'm sure I'll get a better feel for it in a week or two.

Maybe random crits are working for the BB again though, but I didn't see any in my 3-4 hours of play time since the patch went up.

[zaneyard]

[quote author=erraticferret link=topic=1005.msg26067#msg26067 date=1217394024]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1005.msg26057#msg26057 date=1217393262]
what the should have done to compensate is make the bb have a little more range on the ft to give it an edge over the ab

You don't think crit backs are enough? Bb gets the drop on a normal pyro and there's not much they can do, besides air blast and run from the incoming shotgun fire...
[/quote]
I was just thinking... and actually, no.  They probably aren't enough.  Probably meaning: "I need to play more because I generally don't like to spew out random nonsense if I can avoid it."

The reason I'm tossing that out there right now, before I've played more, is mainly because I look at the selling points of the AB:
Reflect Rockets, Grenades, Stickies, Flares; Push People (active ability, consumes 25 ammo, minor CD between AB's/Flame use)
Random Criticals

and then I look at the BB:
100% Criticals from behind (limited arc)

My main concern is similar to others before, that the AB wasn't good enough compaired to the BB and now it's the other way around.  That arguement was subjective, and so is mine.  Still, I can't help but wonder if it is balanced enough.  I'm not saying the 50hp should come back, but maybe a minor tweak is in order for the BB.  Maybe.  I'm sure I'll get a better feel for it in a week or two.

Maybe random crits are working for the BB again though, but I didn't see any in my 3-4 hours of play time since the patch went up.
[/quote]
exactly, it doesnt really have its niche now, the AB is far more useful
i call for some minor tweaking.

[CaffeinePowered]

BB still crits from the front, so you get Backstab vs Reflection

[REDjackeT]

BB still crits from the front, so you get Backstab vs Reflection

http://www.mediafire.com/?mttjpmjy1e0
demo_test.rar (2.13mb) -> demo_test.dem (8.52mb) 26+ minutes

On one of the pyro achievement maps, spawned a Bot (medic) so I could verify that the crit was real.

20 minute constant BB usage: 0 crit stream
6 minute constant FT usage: 5+ crit streams that could be verified (1 came when the bot was still dead)

Also, and you can't see this in the demo for whatever reason, the FT was throwing "fake crits" (thats why I was lighting the medic bot up randomly).

I've done tests like this before yesterday's patch and there was only once where I saw a crit stream off the BB but I wasn't using a bot to verify it.

Keep in mind, the BB could random/front crit before the 7/1/08 patch, which is likely where that wiki information came from.

-EDiT_
I pretty much just did this demo after you posted that, btw.  I'm pretty bored right now.

-EDiT #2_
For those not in the know who want to watch this depressingly boring demo, if you type "demoui" in the console, you can get a little remote to alter the speed.  Setting it at 600% can make you miss the crit visual effects though from the FT, but you can still hear it.  I'd keep it at 200-300% if you want to see anything.

[Surf314]

I still had people bitching about the pyro being OP in the server today.  I was like they fixed that, and they were like damned if that's going to get in the ways of my bitching.  So I was like *sigh* proceed then you seem pretty determined.

[timepants]

I still had people bitching about the pyro being OP in the server today.  I was like they fixed that, and they were like damned if that's going to get in the ways of my bitching.  So I was like *sigh* proceed then you seem pretty determined.

Did you grief them after you heard that?

[A. Crow]

I was genuinely impressed Tuesday after me and Benny got in a good uber and cooked over half the other team in like 5 seconds (protip: even if you're right next to your spawn, don't turn to run from the backburner) and I didn't hear any bitching.  Ofcourse it might have just been all talk being off...

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Indeed, situational.  I like the BB on maps like labor and gravelpit, pretty easy to flank.

[Eschatos]

[ToiletDuck]

now those are pretty decent wings

[rumsfald]

now those are pretty decent wings

hahahaha

[ScottyGrayskull]

Apparently there's been a ninja buff to the backburner, increasing the range slightly over the flamethrower.

[REDjackeT]

Apparently there's been a ninja buff to the backburner, increasing the range slightly over the flamethrower.

Ooo, thanks for the reminder on this...

It was a flawed testing method, they both have the same range.  If you dont "mimic" and just use the bot as a targetting dummy, get just out of range with the Flamethrower, switch to the BB (have to be in your spawn when you line up, or use an open map like the pyro achievement map), and try to toast, you'll still not hit him.

-EDiT_
In case you don't know the testing method, someone posted on the forums about this.  He was using a bot set to mimic him.  For some reason, the bot's range is shorter, or his aim isn't spot on or something which causes him to not be able to hit with it as well as the player can.  Doing this test with two real people (someone else in the thread did it) showed they were the same.  Doing the test like I stated above, shows they have the same range.