Fallout 3

[Budr]

[quote author=Budr link=topic=1415.msg38932#msg38932 date=1221493289]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1415.msg38929#msg38929 date=1221492837]
too late, i was given 20 extra bucks if i wanted to put the money towards the game. i fully intend to enjoy it no matter how much the older games may be better different.

It's a subtle disparity but you have to remember that Caff's just a grumpy old curmudgeon. I'm fairly certain that this iteration of the franchise will not make him enjoy the earlier entries in the series any less.
[/quote]

No, but it means that any attempt to make a new entry that is on par with the old ones will end in disaster. A bunch of xbox kiddies will buy it and love it even though it has the depth of a teaspoon when compared to the Olympic swimming pool that was the first two games.

They could have made their own original IP, made it post-apocalyptic, and no one would be complaining. But I guess that would take too much work.

If you ever get a chance find and download the alpha version that Black Isle made of the REAL fallout 3.
[/quote]

Van Buren? I tried it but, and you should know I never got into the original games, it just felt like more of the same.

I understand where you're coming from entirely though. As a lover of film, it pains me to see the flood of recent sequels that have been released in the absence of originality. Aside from the truly bad ones (Rocky, Rambo, AvP), most of the time they just miss the mark. Die Hard 4 was a fairly entertaining film but it was in no way a Die Hard. It wasn't until after I watched it that I realised that it was unreasonable to expect anything more. Most of what made the films what they were was the charm of the period, the actors as they were at that time, the essence of that period of late 80s/early 90s cinema, etc. And that essence is nigh on impossible to recreate.

Fallout 3 won't feel like the first two and it can't. If they had made a true sequel, chances are it would have felt dated and people would have decried it as behind the times and the evolutionary arc.

[ZargonX]

I'm in "wait and see" mode.  I'm a huge fan of the originals, and I'm a little worried about Bethesda's handling of it.  I say this not because I'm some purist or anything, but because I was really disappointed by Oblivion.  I was really excited for that, and then it turned out to be a level-adjusted, repetitive bore fest.  Previews, to me, are pretty worthless.

[rumsfald]

Don't tell Caff, but I plan on renting this on xbox.  That was my plan before my cpu died, and now it is my only plan.

Don't tell Caff, but I never played 1 or 2 either.  But before you hit that -1 button, show some compassion for the fact that I played wasteland on the c-64 and loved it (also, The Last V8).

[CaffeinePowered]

Don't tell Caff, but I plan on renting this on xbox.  That was my plan before my cpu died, and now it is my only plan.

Don't tell Caff, but I never played 1 or 2 either.  But before you hit that -1 button, show some compassion for the fact that I played wasteland on the c-64 and loved it (also, The Last V8).

You played wasteland and thus are spared my wrath

[Tragic Hero]

Im with Caf on the FO3 sucks bandwagon.  I can handle the new camera angle but to make it more of a FPS, replacing most int skill requirements with minigames, and not having charisma/int affect your dialogue drastically?  That dog won't hunt for me.  Plus the "Washington Wasteland" doesn't seem to fit right.

[Dave]

fallout 3 wont be shit, it just wont be as good as 1 or 2, when was the last time you baught a game caff, *your allways supporting warez         
  *[sic]spore

[ToiletDuck]

ya... i'm thinking of not buying it

[zaneyard]

Im with Caf on the FO3 sucks bandwagon.  I can handle the new camera angle but to make it more of a FPS, replacing most int skill requirements with minigames, and not having charisma/int affect your dialogue drastically?  That dog won't hunt for me.  Plus the "Washington Wasteland" doesn't seem to fit right.

im sorry, but when did you play the game to learn the mechanics of it so specifically?

[Dave]

[quote author=Tragic Hero link=topic=1415.msg39753#msg39753 date=1221804439]
Im with Caf on the FO3 sucks bandwagon.  I can handle the new camera angle but to make it more of a FPS, replacing most int skill requirements with minigames, and not having charisma/int affect your dialogue drastically?  That dog won't hunt for me.  Plus the "Washington Wasteland" doesn't seem to fit right.

im sorry, but when did you play the game to learn the mechanics of it so specifically?
[/quote]


ooo, sick burn.

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=Tragic Hero link=topic=1415.msg39753#msg39753 date=1221804439]
Im with Caf on the FO3 sucks bandwagon.  I can handle the new camera angle but to make it more of a FPS, replacing most int skill requirements with minigames, and not having charisma/int affect your dialogue drastically?  That dog won't hunt for me.  Plus the "Washington Wasteland" doesn't seem to fit right.

im sorry, but when did you play the game to learn the mechanics of it so specifically?
[/quote]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_FAQ#Gameplay

Pretty much says everything there, Intelligence and Charisma do not affect your speech choices, fail

Will there be mini-games?

Yes, there will be mini-games. The only ones known so far is the hacking mini-game played in order to hack into a terminal. In the mini-game, there was a list of passwords to choose from, and after a choice was made, feedback was given on how many letters were shared between the picked option and the correct answer. It will be similar to the board game "Mastermind."[15].

Minigames = Fail

RPGs should base whether you succeed or fail at a task based on your skill level at such a task, the speech and lockpick minigames in oblivion made leveling such skills completely worthless.

[zaneyard]

[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1415.msg39766#msg39766 date=1221829608]
[quote author=Tragic Hero link=topic=1415.msg39753#msg39753 date=1221804439]
Im with Caf on the FO3 sucks bandwagon.  I can handle the new camera angle but to make it more of a FPS, replacing most int skill requirements with minigames, and not having charisma/int affect your dialogue drastically?  That dog won't hunt for me.  Plus the "Washington Wasteland" doesn't seem to fit right.

im sorry, but when did you play the game to learn the mechanics of it so specifically?
[/quote]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_3_FAQ#Gameplay

Pretty much says everything there, Intelligence and Charisma do not affect your speech choices, fail
[/quote]
i can write in a text document that the game lets you fly and call it official too!!

reguardless, i think the game will be fun
sure, it will have its flaws, just like everything else in the world
even if it was perfect it would be criticized for being too perfect or something.

honestly i think the hacking minigame looks fun

[ainmosni]

As much as I keep hoping this game will be any good it will just be more Bethesda dreck again... I would be happier if Bioware took over the license... At least they dare to grey out speech options based on your stats... I'm very sceptical of this if only because I really disliked (to put it lightly) Oblivion and fallout 1/2 where totally the opposite of it.

But you know how this will play out... It will get good reviews... Kiddies with less attention span will laud it for being 'deep' (just like they did with Oblivion) and us older folk will just facepalm...

That or Bethesda might surprise me and make a great game... but I'd rather be surprised than let down...

[zaneyard]

As much as I keep hoping this game will be any good it will just be more Bethesda dreck again... I would be happier if Bioware took over the license... At least they dare to grey out speech options based on your stats... I'm very sceptical of this if only because I really disliked (to put it lightly) Oblivion and fallout 1/2 where totally the opposite of it.

But you know how this will play out... It will get good reviews... Kiddies with less attention span will laud it for being 'deep' (just like they did with Oblivion) and us older folk will just facepalm...

That or Bethesda might surprise me and make a great game... but I'd rather be surprised than let down...

your delving too deep into the analysis of the game
the only thing i care about is how fun it is

[ainmosni]

[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=1415.msg40013#msg40013 date=1221902282]
As much as I keep hoping this game will be any good it will just be more Bethesda dreck again... I would be happier if Bioware took over the license... At least they dare to grey out speech options based on your stats... I'm very sceptical of this if only because I really disliked (to put it lightly) Oblivion and fallout 1/2 where totally the opposite of it.

But you know how this will play out... It will get good reviews... Kiddies with less attention span will laud it for being 'deep' (just like they did with Oblivion) and us older folk will just facepalm...

That or Bethesda might surprise me and make a great game... but I'd rather be surprised than let down...

your delving too deep into the analysis of the game
the only thing i care about is how fun it is

[/quote]

My definition of fun: Fallout
My definition of crap: Oblivion

See my dilemma?

I am just afraid of games becoming less and less deep... I want games as deep and involved as Fallout again and seeing fallout being yet another watered down game (from what Bethesda said it will be) pains me and people like me... It's not just making about making a bad Fallout game and more about games going more and more lowest common denominator...

*goes and plays fallout again...*

[zaneyard]

[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1415.msg40021#msg40021 date=1221905867]
[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=1415.msg40013#msg40013 date=1221902282]
As much as I keep hoping this game will be any good it will just be more Bethesda dreck again... I would be happier if Bioware took over the license... At least they dare to grey out speech options based on your stats... I'm very sceptical of this if only because I really disliked (to put it lightly) Oblivion and fallout 1/2 where totally the opposite of it.

But you know how this will play out... It will get good reviews... Kiddies with less attention span will laud it for being 'deep' (just like they did with Oblivion) and us older folk will just facepalm...

That or Bethesda might surprise me and make a great game... but I'd rather be surprised than let down...

your delving too deep into the analysis of the game
the only thing i care about is how fun it is

[/quote]

My definition of fun: Fallout
My definition of crap: Oblivion

See my dilemma?

I am just afraid of games becoming less and less deep... I want games as deep and involved as Fallout again and seeing fallout being yet another watered down game (from what Bethesda said it will be) pains me and people like me... It's not just making about making a bad Fallout game and more about games going more and more lowest common denominator...

*goes and plays fallout again...*
[/quote]
i enjoyed oblivion?

[ainmosni]

[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=1415.msg40024#msg40024 date=1221906344]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=1415.msg40021#msg40021 date=1221905867]
[quote author=ainmosni link=topic=1415.msg40013#msg40013 date=1221902282]
As much as I keep hoping this game will be any good it will just be more Bethesda dreck again... I would be happier if Bioware took over the license... At least they dare to grey out speech options based on your stats... I'm very sceptical of this if only because I really disliked (to put it lightly) Oblivion and fallout 1/2 where totally the opposite of it.

But you know how this will play out... It will get good reviews... Kiddies with less attention span will laud it for being 'deep' (just like they did with Oblivion) and us older folk will just facepalm...

That or Bethesda might surprise me and make a great game... but I'd rather be surprised than let down...

your delving too deep into the analysis of the game
the only thing i care about is how fun it is

[/quote]

My definition of fun: Fallout
My definition of crap: Oblivion

See my dilemma?

I am just afraid of games becoming less and less deep... I want games as deep and involved as Fallout again and seeing fallout being yet another watered down game (from what Bethesda said it will be) pains me and people like me... It's not just making about making a bad Fallout game and more about games going more and more lowest common denominator...

*goes and plays fallout again...*
[/quote]
i enjoyed oblivion?
[/quote]

Off course some people did, but it just didn't live up to my standards... after the 'wow' factor passed I was annoyed by all the copy and paste of environments... quests.. voices... And don't get me started about the enemies levelling up with you... Then there was the GUI which was clearly made for consoles and too bulky for the PC... It took me about a dozen mods to make the game playable...

It's a shame, the technology behind the game was awesome and it had potential... but it didn't live up to its potential imho...

[Tragic Hero]

Off course some people did, but it just didn't live up to my standards... after the 'wow' factor passed I was annoyed by all the copy and paste of environments... quests.. voices... And don't get me started about the enemies levelling up with you... Then there was the GUI which was clearly made for consoles and too bulky for the PC... It took me about a dozen mods to make the game playable...

It's a shame, the technology behind the game was awesome and it had potential... but it didn't live up to its potential imho...

You're right about that.  At least Morrowind left you kind of bewildered due to the fact you were placed in a very strange land (Nix hounds and Silt STriders).  Oblivion just got really boring with (as Ain put it) copy and paste environments.

I would have to say that Shivering Isles was a very nice expansion though.

[Surf314]

I talked to my wife about oblivion.  Oddly enough she is one of the biggest oblivion fan ever, but she doesn't want fallout.  She says she doesn't like shooting games.

Anyways my point was that you had a whole history of super deep RPGs that were not so great on the gameplay mechanics.  Then you come out with a game that has really nice gameplay mechanics.  The leveling system just makes sense.  The combat is OK but definately as good or better than what else was out.  But the depth was complete shit.  Like I enjoyed it for about halfway and then there was just nothing to keep me interested.  Not to mention the fact that I'm slightly OCD had me going into every single one of those chaos gate things.

So yea it was like they came out with the next iteration of what RPG should be but then took a shit on the narrative and storytelling influences of the genre.

[CaffeinePowered]

So yea it was like they came out with the next iteration of what RPG should be but then took a shit on the narrative and storytelling influences of the genre.

At best it was a first person clone of diabolo

At worst it was a cheap knock-off



I actually wasted $50 on oblivion, I enjoyed it for about 2 hours before that ooooo and ahhhhh of the graphics of the huge world wore off. Yea, it was a big place to explore, but a lot of it felt copy-pasta and/or randomly generated.

The world may have been physically large, but it was actually small. My actions had no consequences, go try beating fallout with the child killer perk and you'll know what Im talking about.

[ainmosni]

The leveling system just makes sense.

I hope you don't mean the 'enemies level up with you' system, that was horrible... Nothing like being a high level character that still has trouble fighting wolves to break your immersion...