Dota 2

[Chief]

[quote author=TheDarkChief link=topic=5832.msg242497#msg242497 date=1333674301]
[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242447#msg242447 date=1333595836]
Fuck it I published it for real.  Not finished but the important shit is there.

bkb is a terrible buy for sniper
as sniper you're supposed to be out of the fight, not in it, linkens is better if you want to stop the one random target stun/hex that will come your way (which it shouldnt because you're not supposed to be seen in the fight)
[/quote]

In a perfect world you'll never be caught in the middle of a fight but in reality that'll happen multiple times a game.  Only a bkb, or idiots not bringing dust if you have shadow blade, will allow you to get out alive. 
[/quote]if you're caught in the middle of a fight you shouldnt be playing sniper in the first place

[Eschatos]

[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242599#msg242599 date=1333819964]
[quote author=TheDarkChief link=topic=5832.msg242497#msg242497 date=1333674301]
[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242447#msg242447 date=1333595836]
Fuck it I published it for real.  Not finished but the important shit is there.

bkb is a terrible buy for sniper
as sniper you're supposed to be out of the fight, not in it, linkens is better if you want to stop the one random target stun/hex that will come your way (which it shouldnt because you're not supposed to be seen in the fight)
[/quote]

In a perfect world you'll never be caught in the middle of a fight but in reality that'll happen multiple times a game.  Only a bkb, or idiots not bringing dust if you have shadow blade, will allow you to get out alive. 
[/quote]if you're caught in the middle of a fight you shouldnt be playing sniper in the first place
[/quote]

Ok, pretend you get ganked by an Earthshaker with an invis rune.  Even if you're playing 100% perfectly there are a huge number of elements out of your control that can and will result in your death.  BKB will remove or reduce a huge number of those elements.  You might go for a whole game where a BKB doesn't save your ass but in the long run it'll help you out many times.  Linken's is cool too but overall it's too damn expensive. I'd say that unless the enemy team has at least two heroes with ults that go through BKB or very few stuns on the entire team, BKB > Linken's every time.

[zaneyard]

[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=5832.msg242601#msg242601 date=1333821593]
[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242599#msg242599 date=1333819964]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=5832.msg242498#msg242498 date=1333674580]
mkb is pretty fucking important on sniper btw tacos, the ability to shoot up the ramps into base is a big deal
you can sit back and pummel on the towers and shit while your team is on the front line and you don't have to get anywhere near it.

Still, being able to sit back and shoot at people hitting them 100 percent of the time is insane. especially with sniper he's the most likely hero in the game that you're going to be firing up hill.
[/quote]
Thing is, Sniper is a good MS candidate because of his mini-stun ability, so if you go that route then MKB loses lots of viability.

I do see the point in it. If you're going against a lot of blinding/blurring heroes, I'd say it'd definitely fit. I still don't know what he really needs myself though (I should probably skim through a guide or two).
[/quote]

you don't get it for the mini stun, you get it for consistent dps while shooting uphill
sniper is squishy as fuck
he compensates by having a huge range

he can sit way back and pummel people while his team gives him vision
if you don't have that true shot, you miss a quarter of your shots
so now, instead of doing 100 damage, you do 75
of course, if you somehow make every fight happen right in the middle of the lane on flat ground, it's not going to do shit, but in the end, you're going to be pushing up to the internal towers, and you're going to have to shoot uphill

or of course, you could force yourself into a terrible position and have to get right up into the middle of the fight, but that's how you lose as a carry

[Chief]

[quote author=TheDarkChief link=topic=5832.msg242605#msg242605 date=1333824079]
[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242599#msg242599 date=1333819964]
[quote author=TheDarkChief link=topic=5832.msg242497#msg242497 date=1333674301]
[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=5832.msg242447#msg242447 date=1333595836]
Fuck it I published it for real.  Not finished but the important shit is there.

bkb is a terrible buy for sniper
as sniper you're supposed to be out of the fight, not in it, linkens is better if you want to stop the one random target stun/hex that will come your way (which it shouldnt because you're not supposed to be seen in the fight)
[/quote]

In a perfect world you'll never be caught in the middle of a fight but in reality that'll happen multiple times a game.  Only a bkb, or idiots not bringing dust if you have shadow blade, will allow you to get out alive. 
[/quote]if you're caught in the middle of a fight you shouldnt be playing sniper in the first place
[/quote]

Ok, pretend you get ganked by an Earthshaker with an invis rune.  Even if you're playing 100% perfectly there are a huge number of elements out of your control that can and will result in your death.  BKB will remove or reduce a huge number of those elements.  You might go for a whole game where a BKB doesn't save your ass but in the long run it'll help you out many times.  Linken's is cool too but overall it's too damn expensive. I'd say that unless the enemy team has at least two heroes with ults that go through BKB or very few stuns on the entire team, BKB > Linken's every time.
[/quote]you'll be stunned to death that you wont get the chance to activate bkb, so your argument sucks right from the get go

and its not too damned expensive because as sniper you're supposed to be clearing out lanes by the point you get it. you get +15 to all stats, which means more health than bkb, plus +15 damage along with the +10 it already gives (which means one more damage than bkb), +15 int which goes to spamming your ult, plus the health and mana regen, and it blocks a spell every 20 seconds. its simply not worth getting bkb for sniper when linkens is better in the long run for only 1275 more

bkb is always better for heroes in the midst of the battle, not when you're sniper with 600+ range

[Squishy3]

[Chief]

this happens whenever i play furion

[cbre88x]

Yea, I can't take this game anymore. I'm honestly not going to spend the time and play a bot game with every single character. I'm not going to spend hours and hours trying to perfect every single character. I'm not going to take getting harassed in nearly every single I game I play whether I'm playing like a badass or not. Certainly not going to take bullshit from people on this forum. I'm deleting, your games will be better without me anyways.

[zaneyard]

people on this forum

playing with the wrong people I see

[Trace]

[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=5832.msg242677#msg242677 date=1333943125]
people on this forum

playing with the wrong people I see
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that cbreeze, but not everyone who plays is a dick. Granted a vast majority of them are, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy a game once in a while with people who aren't.  

[Vandamguy]

[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=5832.msg242678#msg242678 date=1333943594]
[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=5832.msg242677#msg242677 date=1333943125]
people on this forum

playing with the wrong people I see
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that cbreeze, but not everyone who plays is a dick. Granted a vast majority of them are, but is doesn't mean you can't enjoy a game once in a while with people who aren't.  
[/quote]
prety much this , just avoid playing with people that think winning in dota makes them a better person.  
if you're lookin for casual dont give a fucks people to play with im here, with chimp and masterGH (maybe trace)

win or lose we're still havin fun... which is the real indication of success

[cbre88x]

[quote author=Trace link=topic=5832.msg242682#msg242682 date=1333947824]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=5832.msg242678#msg242678 date=1333943594]
[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=5832.msg242677#msg242677 date=1333943125]
people on this forum

playing with the wrong people I see
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that cbreeze, but not everyone who plays is a dick. Granted a vast majority of them are, but is doesn't mean you can't enjoy a game once in a while with people who aren't.  
[/quote]
prety much this , just avoid playing with people that think winning in dota makes them a better person.  
if you're lookin for casual dont give a fucks people to play with im here, with chimp and masterGH (maybe trace)

win or lose we're still havin fun... which is the real indication of success
[/quote]

I'll be back. I just can't take that shit right now. That game we played last night with that group of assholes just took the wind out of my sails. Give me a month to cool off, or at least until the semester is over. Too much stress.

[|GW|Chimp]

[quote author=Trace link=topic=5832.msg242682#msg242682 date=1333947824]
[quote author=zaneyard link=topic=5832.msg242678#msg242678 date=1333943594]
[quote author=cbre88x link=topic=5832.msg242677#msg242677 date=1333943125]
people on this forum

playing with the wrong people I see
[/quote]

Sorry to hear that cbreeze, but not everyone who plays is a dick. Granted a vast majority of them are, but is doesn't mean you can't enjoy a game once in a while with people who aren't.  
[/quote]
prety much this , just avoid playing with people that think winning in dota makes them a better person.  
if you're lookin for casual dont give a fucks people to play with im here, with chimp and masterGH (maybe trace)

win or lose we're still havin fun... which is the real indication of success
[/quote]

Hey BRB!  Haven't posted much lately, but I see you guys in game often.

I was pretty cheesed off last night and debated on coming around and saying something, but decided against it because frankly, who needs drama?  However, after seeing Cbreeze's post I decided to chime in.

Dark Chief, I understand that you were upset after that game.  Those guys were dicks and were giving you the business...I understand that.  However, you turned around and did the same thing to me right after that. 

Your comments weren't too bad at first, and I remained pleasant because I appreciate the advice.  However, after all that you ended it with (I'm paraphrasing a bit, but only a bit) "I hate players like you because you come into the game and don't have knowledge of it and don't try to learn it and aren't very good."

For your information, this is my first MOBA.  I have read everything I can get my hands on from DotaFire and the other sites.  I've watched at least 60+ videos from CinemaDota (tons of Hero Tutorials and Purge Plays videos).  I've watched tons of Pro matches on streams.  I've played tons of bot matches by myself or co-op.  I have 100 games under my belt so far against 'real" players.

The point is, I've done due diligence.  I don't think you realize that the game doesn't come easy for some players.  I'm mainly an FPS player, so strategy games aren't all that intuitive to me.  I'm going to assume that you've played some other MOBA like Lol, HoN, or Dota 1 and have tons of experience.  A lot of us don't.

You might want to re-think your attitude about how you treat players.  I've played plenty of FPS noobs and I try my best to help them out and bring them into the fold.  MOBAs have the reputation for having the worst community, there's no need for us to foster that reputation.

[cbre88x]

What Chimp said. My first MOBA, and like Chimp, I have been playing shooters since the dawn of time.  I have something like 92-94 games against people? Current record is 44-46 I think? Spent bot games with certain characters. Infact, my first bot game with Bloodseeker on the highest setting I went 22-3. Way too easy.
Then people suggest I play a character I'm not familiar with and expect to be badass on the first try when I haven't been playing this style of game that long?

[Squishy3]

What Chimp said. My first MOBA, and like Chimp, I have been playing shooters since the dawn of time.  I have something like 92-94 games against people? Current record is 44-46 I think? Spent bot games with certain characters. Infact, my first bot game with Bloodseeker on the highest setting I went 22-3. Way too easy.
Then people suggest I play a character I'm not familiar with and expect to be badass on the first try when I haven't been playing this style of game that long?

This is my problem. I have some IRL friends that I play with, and then I tell them who I'm going to play and say "Oh well you should play a different hero, that hero is too hard for a new person." Then I do worse with the hero they told me to pick and chastise me about it. The best match I had was with Zaneyard, LAG, Eschatos and Senator where Ursa kept fucking us up but we ended up prevailing anyway

[Trace]

Honestly play whatever you feel like as long as the team composition isn't completely broken by your picks.  That said though it's a good idea to maybe focus on  maybe at least three heroes to be familiar with just in case different roles are needed or someone picks your top choice. I understand a lot of you guys are learning so by familiar I mean have a good idea of that heroes role and how to perform it. I certainly don't expect you guys to be pro or anything, nor do I expect you to know what every hero is capable of, since both those things take time.

TLDR: Play whatever the fuck you want, as long as you enjoy yourself and hopefully learn something I'll gladly play with any of you.

[If-I-Die-Its-Lag]

Taskmaster LAG is here and will yell at you to get better.

Seriously, I find that if I act like a huge douche, then somehow my team will win and everyone will be happy.

See last night's game with Trace, Surf, Vandam, and Chimp. Of course, it was all in good fun and I was joking (more or less).

Games like these really needs an RTS mindset in order to win. I would actually play Starcraft or Warcraft just to get some familiarity with map awareness and knowing how to engage. Then, I would go ahead and play some easier mobas and try to build up some of the skill sets that you'll need to learn like last hitting. I would then suggest that you go into playing with bots on the hardest difficulty.

Summary: You'll get better in time. Just like with Terrible Fortress 2.

[Eschatos]

If there's someone you really want to play, by all means play them over the "right" hero to play.  Personally I base the heroes I learn off what's good in competitive play, but I'll be the first to admit that none of us play at the level where the hero differences really matter.  Get good at who you like and then expand out to different heroes, not the other way around.

[Whendilin]

I LOVE DOTA PROBABLY MY FAVORITE GAME OF ALL TIME GOTTAT BE GOOD





also chimp it's just dota not dota 1

[Kirby]

derpcheif strikes again!

[|GW|Chimp]

Taskmaster LAG is here and will yell at you to get better.

Seriously, I find that if I act like a huge douche, then somehow my team will win and everyone will be happy.

See last night's game with Trace, Surf, Vandam, and Chimp. Of course, it was all in good fun and I was joking (more or less).

Games like these really needs an RTS mindset in order to win. I would actually play Starcraft or Warcraft just to get some familiarity with map awareness and knowing how to engage. Then, I would go ahead and play some easier mobas and try to build up some of the skill sets that you'll need to learn like last hitting. I would then suggest that you go into playing with bots on the hardest difficulty.

Summary: You'll get better in time. Just like with Terrible Fortress 2.

Lag, you were fine.  Like you said, you were mostly kidding.  In addition, you were making note of the fact that you suck as well.  It was all fairly light-hearted.

Chief just busted out the "I hate  players like you" straight up to my face after the game and I was like "WTF."  I expect that from pubs, not so much from people I'm playing with on my Friends list .

In Chief's defense, we had just played some total fucking DICKS and tensions were running high.  I think he was just really worked up and not thinking about what he was saying.  I hope.