Future build: Victor

[Eightball]

This thread is intended to serve as a planning and discussion center for the construction of a new PC during the spring or summer of 2013. It will be updated piecemeal as time progresses

After 3-4 years on my current PC, I've decided to build a new rig. I'm making this thread far in advance because I want to give myself plenty of time to understand the parts, market trends, and some other nuances in not only PC construction but also designing a good workstation. To give some context, I am finishing my last year of undergraduate education, and will (hopefully) be enrolling in medical school immediately afterwards. There, I expect my gaming to decrease significantly, but not quite come to an end. I certainly don't want to have to deal with the prospects of a system build during the academic year, nor do I want to deal with the numerous problems my current PC experiences, so I'd like to get it done before then. To that last point, I am drawing a lot of inspiration from my mixed experiences with my current desktop PC. While something of a powerhouse, it suffers from a wide range of problems, from the mundane to the just weird. I credit this to a shoddy job constructing and optimizing, as well as not creating a good environment for the rig. A lot of those goals I hope to achieve are under the other consideration sections below.

I intend this thread for discussion and evaluation of just about anything that can go into this PC. If you have anything to contribute or comment on, please do share it. I will be updating the OP several times in the future.


Build (Victor)
My existing one will go to my girlfriend, so I won't be salvaging many parts, save for what is currently my primary display.
PCpartpicker list
CPU - Intel Core i5-3570k - Purchased ($185)
Motherboard - ASRock Z77 Extreme4 - Purchased ($105)
Memory - Corsair Vengeance 2x4GB DDR3-1600 - Purchased ($50)
Storage - OCZ Vertex 4 128GB SSD - Purchased ($75)
Storage - Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB - Purchased ($110)
Graphics - EVGA GTX 660 - Purchased ($230/$210)
PSU - OCZ Fatal1ty 750W - Purchased ($85/$60)
Optical Drives - Reusing a DVD burner from my current PC until Blu-ray becomes more affordable/common (if optical discs don't get phased out altogether).
Case - Cooler Master Storm Enforcer - Purchased ($75/$65)
Cooling & Airflow - Cooler Master HYPER 212 EVO - Purchased ($30/$25)
Cooling & Airflow - CM 200mm Red LED fan for exhaust - Purchased ($20)
Cooling & Airflow - CM 120mm Sickleflow fan for exhaust - Purchased ($10)
Other Accessories - A few things - Purchased ($50)
Operating System - Windows 7 Professional (thanks HeK!)
Display - Reusing my current asymmetric setup (24.6" Samsung HDTV/Monitor hybrid + Small Dell monitor flipped to portrait display)
Peripherals - CM Storm Trigger (MX Black) - Purchased ($80)
Peripherals - Reusing my Logitech G500 (easily the best mouse I've ever used).
Peripherals - Reusing my Razer Carcharias. If that goes, I'll try out the CM Storm Ceres.
Total Spent: $1105 ($1045 if all MIRs work)

Rebuild (Tango)
All internal components recycled.
Operating System - Windows 7 Ultimate*
Display - BenQ GW2250 21.5" LED Monitor - Purchased ($110)
Peripherals - Reusing my Logitech G510
Peripherals - Reusing a simple 3.5mm headset
Peripherals - Logitech M500 - Purchased ($25)
Total Spent: $135


Budget
Victor: $1300
Tango: $200
Workstation: $500
Total: $2000


Workstation
I want to create an environment for play (and perhaps work) that is both productivity-boosting and pretty. Something I can be proud of, and not mind spending the better parts of my days at! I'll update this with desks or design ideas. Here is what I want out of my station:

• Good use of vertical space. Too often I see a battlestation that is sleek and sexy, but is just stuff splayed on flat on a desk with an empty wall above. A desk with a hutch would be great.
  
• Compartmentalization. Like above, I don't want a plain flat surface to pour all my junk onto. Integrated storage, somewhere to put a printer, all good.
  
• Backlighting. Optimal viewing conditions involve some soft lighting behind a display, like so. I figure some red LED ropes behind my displays will do the trick.
  
• Cable management. I don't want pesky cables running around looking ugly and getting tangled! At the very least, find a way to hide them
  

Desks: One Two Three

Other Considerations

• Make the computer easy on the eyes. My current rig features bright blue LEDs, so powerful that I have difficulty sleeping with the computer running. To this end, I have some aesthetic preferences: Mostly black or red coloring, and subtle lighting. Not that I necessarily want a bland, black box either. Just if I'm going to light it up like a christmas tree, it'll be mostly red (as red is much, much easier on the eyes than blue or green).
  
• Dust-proof it. Current PC suffers from serious dust choking, so I have to clean it quite often. This is due to it being on the floor (something I can't easily change now) as well as not having dust filters, something I demand of my next case.
  
• Optimize it and keep it well maintained. This will probably be a software thing, but I believe that proper physical maintenance will lend itself to a more stable experience.
  

[HeK]

You might want to take the $1k challenge PC, upgrade the video/SSD.

However, tech will change by the time you are ready to build. So everything will change.

[Eightball]

Here's the case I'm currently considering: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer (newegg link).

I know the aesthetics of the case may not be popular with some, but I like it enough that I'm seriously considering the case. No side vents (which is to the good, according to HeK. All black interior, bottom mount for a PSU, and not full of hard-to-clean mesh. And it's red and black! Just what I wanted (seriously). What do you guys think? Am I creating problems for myself by selecting this case? EDIT: better video

Also a question regarding memory. Is there any real advantage to triplet vs doublet memory? I mean, let's say I want 12GB of RAM. Is there any evidence to suggest that a certain kit (3x4, 2x6, 4x3) is superior to another? If there is, I could nail down my selection of motherboards.

EDIT2: Also it seems like at this stage, the i5-3570k is the only way to go. Thoughts?

[HeK]

No side vents is good when you want to go with positive case pressure, which is what I personally recommend.


The LGA1155 socket only supports dual-channel memory, while the LGA2011 supports triple. Triple is faster. 4-module kits are faster then 2-modules.
Don't buy ram, planning to upgrade in the future, as it is fairly important to match your ram timings. Buy a 4x4gb (16gb) or a 4x8gb(32gb) kit right off the bat.
If you plan on overclocking, plan what you hope to clock to and buy ram rated for that speed. Spend the extra (unless it's silly expensive) for the best timing at that speed.


Looking at the Intel 2013 roadmap, don't expect any changes until March/June when the Haswell cores are released. Then we'll have to review.
Right now, the i5-3570K or the i7-3770K are the best buys, especially with overclocking. If you are only planning to game, there is little advantage with the 3770.

[Eightball]

No side vents is good when you want to go with positive case pressure, which is what I personally recommend.


The LGA1155 socket only supports dual-channel memory, while the LGA2011 supports triple. Triple is faster. 4-module kits are faster then 2-modules.
Don't buy ram, planning to upgrade in the future, as it is fairly important to match your ram timings. Buy a 4x4gb (16gb) or a 4x8gb(32gb) kit right off the bat.
If you plan on overclocking, plan what you hope to clock to and buy ram rated for that speed. Spend the extra (unless it's silly expensive) for the best timing at that speed.


Looking at the Intel 2013 roadmap, don't expect any changes until March/June when the Haswell cores are released. Then we'll have to review.
Right now, the i5-3570K or the i7-3770K are the best buys, especially with overclocking. If you are only planning to game, there is little advantage with the 3770.

Then we'll have to wait until the spring to come to a final decision regarding the CPU. I think that buying a 3770 would just be spending an extra $100 for power I won't be using much. My work with resource intensive software outside of gaming is limited. Any idea if Haswell cores are going to still follow the LGA1156 socket? If so, I can still research motherboards and memory. Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure I won't go above 16GB. I don't expect to see much benefit for the dollar going above that (heck, my current rig is 6GB and I think that's been fine). Jury is also still out on overclocking.

Thanks for the info, +1

EDIT: Nevermind, looks like it'll be LGA 1150. Still, I'll continue my research assuming a 3570 for now.

[Didzo]

Here's the case I'm currently considering: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer (newegg link).

I know the aesthetics of the case may not be popular with some, but I like it enough that I'm seriously considering the case. No side vents (which is to the good, according to HeK. All black interior, bottom mount for a PSU, and not full of hard-to-clean mesh. And it's red and black! Just what I wanted (seriously). What do you guys think? Am I creating problems for myself by selecting this case? EDIT: better video

Don't think you'll be making problems for yourself with that case. The mid tower form factor is good for transport and it's probably pretty light being all plastic. I will yet again plug the Cooler Master HAF series... I prefer their aesthetics and the use of steel for the side panels. They just feel more solid and sturdy.

Newest offering: HAF XM

Another good one: HAF 922

A note on the case pressure: The Scout has open vents in the rear of the case as well as the top, so I don't think it will act as a positive pressure system without additional fan purchases and some case modifications. Positive air pressure will keep dust out best, but I would trust negative air pressure for the best cooling. Shoot air at the components that need it the most and then pump it out at the top and rear, where hot air will end up anyway. If it means anything, most performance or gaming oriented cases seem to be designed with negative air flow in mind.

[HeK]

A note on the case pressure: The Scout has open vents in the rear of the case as well as the top, so I don't think it will act as a positive pressure system without additional fan purchases and some case modifications. Positive air pressure will keep dust out best, but I would trust negative air pressure for the best cooling. Shoot air at the components that need it the most and then pump it out at the top and rear, where hot air will end up anyway. If it means anything, most performance or gaming oriented cases seem to be designed with negative air flow in mind.

Multi-million dollar data centres use positive pressure cooling.... just saying...

[Didzo]

[quote author=Didzo link=topic=6589.msg256077#msg256077 date=1351635364]
A note on the case pressure: The Scout has open vents in the rear of the case as well as the top, so I don't think it will act as a positive pressure system without additional fan purchases and some case modifications. Positive air pressure will keep dust out best, but I would trust negative air pressure for the best cooling. Shoot air at the components that need it the most and then pump it out at the top and rear, where hot air will end up anyway. If it means anything, most performance or gaming oriented cases seem to be designed with negative air flow in mind.

Multi-million dollar data centres use positive pressure cooling.... just saying...
[/quote]

Hexagonal mesh looks sweet with red glow.

<____<

[Eightball]

@Didzo, I didn't know about the XM. I'll give it some consideration, but at initial glance it's hard to justify the higher price tag. Also my understanding was that the Cooler Master "Storm" series was based on and improved upon the HAF 912/922/X internal architecture.

Honestly, I like the look of just about every member of the storm series, but the Enforcer has the best price tag and looks like it will be easy to clean & maintain (few niches and mesh to get choked with dust).

So positive pressure = more air in than out? I think the Enforcer will bias towards positive pressure then with just stock cooling. Maybe could also add an intake fan in the front/bottom, but I'm not currently somewhere I can evaluate that. I think I'd mount a radiator for water cooling at the back/top as well, but I don't actually know how water cooling works. Guess I'll check some youtube tutorials.

EDIT: Okay, so the impression I get is that most liquid cooling systems feature 120mm fan+radiators. The storm enforcer comes with one 120mm exhaust fan in the back, and either a 200mm or two 120mm fans can be mounted in the top. So if I were to stick with it, I would have a few options: Buy a more normal kit with a 120mm radiator, and mount that in the back, moving the stock fan to the top and complementing it with an additional 120mm exhaust fan. Or, buy a fancy kit with a 240x120mm radiator, and mount that in the top. It's more expensive, but...

[Mission Difficult]

With my case temperatures average 2.58°C cooler with positive pressure versus negative pressure. And that's with two fans versus three. However it also seems to cause an increase of about 3dB SPL, probably because having fans above and behind the CPU cooler act as a sort of baffle.

[Didzo]

@Didzo, I didn't know about the XM. I'll give it some consideration, but at initial glance it's hard to justify the higher price tag. Also my understanding was that the Cooler Master "Storm" series was based on and improved upon the HAF 912/922/X internal architecture.

Honestly, I like the look of just about every member of the storm series, but the Enforcer has the best price tag and looks like it will be easy to clean & maintain (few niches and mesh to get choked with dust).

Upon further research, the Storm Enforcer is indeed newer than the 922 and seems better thought out and an overall better value. I would give the HAF XM a closer look though as it's a relatively new release. It's almost all steel, has dust filters over every vent, has two hot swap bays, latches and thumbscrews for easy access and cleaning, and has other mostly unnecessary details that may or may not justify the price increase for you. I mostly just like it's look and construction though, which is a matter of personal preference above all else.

[HeK]

EDIT: Okay, so the impression I get is that most liquid cooling systems feature 120mm fan+radiators. The storm enforcer comes with one 120mm exhaust fan in the back, and either a 200mm or two 120mm fans can be mounted in the top. So if I were to stick with it, I would have a few options: Buy a more normal kit with a 120mm radiator, and mount that in the back, moving the stock fan to the top and complementing it with an additional 120mm exhaust fan. Or, buy a fancy kit with a 240x120mm radiator, and mount that in the top. It's more expensive, but...

Most all-in-one watercooling kits are not worth it. You can get better surface area with a large air cooler and in the end, heat dissipation is all about surface area.
They costs more and you have pumps that can fail. The real advantage comes when you have cases with poor airflow, like my brother's rack-mount case where I have a Corsair H60 front mounted where it can pull fresh air and the CPU is way in the back.

With my case temperatures average 2.58°C cooler with positive pressure versus negative pressure. And that's with two fans versus three. However it also seems to cause an increase of about 3dB SPL, probably because having fans above and behind the CPU cooler act as a sort of baffle.

Twice as loud? It would be interesting to do some SPL testing with push, pull and push+pull cooler configurations.

[Eightball]

Motherboard selection is proving as difficult as ever. I don't really know what I should be looking for. I know that I shouldn't be paying >$200 for the motherboard, but what then after that am I looking for? USB 3.0? SATA 6.0GB/s? Then what? I also know the brands that people tend to recommend (ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, ASRock), but do you guys have recommendations?

EDIT: This (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...k=Z77X-D3H) is well-regarded by Tomshardware. So is the ASROCK Extreme4 and a Biostar mobo.

EDIT2: Also, what the hell is Thunderbolt?

EDIT3: Never mind, I'll go with this until I learn more: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...13-128-558

EDIT4: Maybe a GTX 670 for graphics (for now) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6814130787 Nevermind. Looks like an ATi card is the best option for my price range. I've always used nVidia. Thoughts?

EDIT5: Probably going with corsair for memory again: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6820233185 One of these, or two? You say to buy all my RAM right away, but am I really going to need more than 8GB?

[HeK]

I'm a big fan of Gigabyte, I feel that provide similar and at times better quality than Asus. They give better value than Asus. I personally dislike ASRock boards, having owned one and am still kicking myself for the purchase.

Thunderbolt is an interface for connecting peripheral devices to a computer via an expansion bus. Think of it as the new firewire. You will likely not use it.

That is a very good board, however you may want to save a few bucks and go with the non-TH version. Not a big deal otherwise.

The Intel & NVidia combo is tried and true. ATI is still fucking the dog when it comes to drivers, 3rd party support.

You should really go with a minimum of 4x4GB for your ram. If you are thinking of overclocking (and it's silly not to with these parts) look for faster ram. DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) is a good match for a 4.4ghz overclock without getting too expensive.

[Eightball]

I'm a big fan of Gigabyte, I feel that provide similar and at times better quality than Asus. They give better value than Asus. I personally dislike ASRock boards, having owned one and am still kicking myself for the purchase.

Thunderbolt is an interface for connecting peripheral devices to a computer via an expansion bus. Think of it as the new firewire. You will likely not use it.

That is a very good board, however you may want to save a few bucks and go with the non-TH version. Not a big deal otherwise.

The Intel & NVidia combo is tried and true. ATI is still fucking the dog when it comes to drivers, 3rd party support.

You should really go with a minimum of 4x4GB for your ram. If you are thinking of overclocking (and it's silly not to with these parts) look for faster ram. DDR3 2133 (PC3 17000) is a good match for a 4.4ghz overclock without getting too expensive.

All right, I think I was slightly leaning towards Gigabyte to begin with. I certainly didn't use Firewire, so yeah I probably won't use Thunderbolt. I'll pass on this then and get a D3H or something similar: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6813128546

Intel & nVidia is what I've always used, I don't mind not rocking the boat. It looks like the 660, 660Ti, and 670 are my targets (though this will certainly change by the time I build).

Roger on that last point. I edited my previous post since I found a kit with a CAS latency of 8 rather than 9 (which my poor understanding still tells me is better). 16GB for about $100 then.

EDIT: Yup, D3H seems like the way to go for motherboard, at least for this experiment.

EDIT2: Looks like the equivalent DDR3 2133 kit is a $70 increase. How about this 1866 kit? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.as...6820233236

[HeK]

Keep in mind that there is a difference between the GA-Z77-D3H and the GA-Z77X-D3H. The Z77X has more PCI-E (8x) slots, more Sata3(6gB/s) and more USB3 ports. The +X is a better board overall, plus it comes in matte black.

There is also a GA-Z77X-UD3H. It supports faster memory, has two rear eSata3(6gB/s) (and two onboard, instead of four onboard) and power/reset/clear-cmos/switch-cmos buttons onboard.

It goes up from there. Models add different sound cards, dual network cards, etc. It's really hard to justify models above the Z77X-D3H unless you see something that really jumps out at you. Most of the additional features can be added with a card afterwards anyways.

[Eightball]

There is also a GA-Z77X-UD3H. It supports faster memory, has two rear eSata3(6gB/s) (and two onboard, instead of four onboard) and power/reset/clear-cmos/switch-cmos buttons onboard.

Hmm. For the price difference, I'm gravitating towards the UD3H (I previously had the Z77X-D3H in my list). I'll swap that, and update my OP pretty shortly. I also selected a GTX 660Ti for the time being. It's kinda weird though; EVGA will offer like 5 versions of the same card with different clock speeds, and then Newegg will randomly select some to be $10, $20, and $30 off.

EDIT: Okay, one more question. Z77 refers to the North Bridge, right? How does Z68 compare? A step backwards? Since the Z68X-UD3H board is otherwise identical but has better aesthetics and cost (to me)

[Eightball]

Mkay, after some review last night this is the current build: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/mcY6

Maybe a few more adjustments, and I'll let it be until May. I'm going to start shifting my attention to displays, peripherals, and OS now. Once I've got an idea of that, it's time to start planning a workstation.

[HeK]

The Z68 is a generation older chipset, the Z77 adds in native USB3 and native Ivy Bridge support as well as some other minor changes.

[Kor]

Sweet Hazues HeK, if your member group wasn't already perfectly appropriate, I'd suggest having it changed to Technological Savior/Savant or something in the vein. +1 for building better rigs through rational suggestions.