OMG

[copulatingduck]

Yep, #2 is dead in the water until either valve fixed the update or I can figure out what's wrong.

edit: And they fixed it. While releasing windows server files to the linux servers is kinda retarded, at least valve's turnaround is quick fixing things. :|

[Spore]

They accidently chose to update Scout instead of Spy. Could be worse though.

[Fail Medic]

They accidently chose to update Scout instead of Spy. Could be worse though.

Spies will be able to recharge their cloaking ability by picking up ammo off of the ground or from health cabinets

Define "worse".

[Blues]

Update is horrid. I watched an uber wreck a sentry on dustbowl, and because they missed the level 3 dispenser, the engi had a sentry up within 15 seconds, no joke. If they had made this some sort of weapon replacement and nerfed it a bit, sure. If they had made dispensers upgradeable armor but no MEDIC SPEED HEALING and metal out the ass, sure. But the dispenser is now helping any engi with half a brain cell become almost unstoppable. Splash damage doesn't even hurt the engi enough with the permanent medic heal to kill him ever, and paired with the shit ass demo nerf of shooting stickies, it's getting ridiculous. The same uber demo could not kill my sentry because I shot his stickies as he threw them. And that was just me, imagine a group of 2-3 engis who know to shoot stickies.

Fuck you Valve, fix this quick pl0x.

[Wedge]

Update is horrid. I watched an uber wreck a sentry on dustbowl, and because they missed the level 3 dispenser, the engi had a sentry up within 15 seconds, no joke. If they had made this some sort of weapon replacement and nerfed it a bit, sure. If they had made dispensers upgradeable armor but no MEDIC SPEED HEALING and metal out the ass, sure. But the dispenser is now helping any engi with half a brain cell become almost unstoppable. Splash damage doesn't even hurt the engi enough with the permanent medic heal to kill him ever, and paired with the shit ass demo nerf of shooting stickies, it's getting ridiculous. The same uber demo could not kill my sentry because I shot his stickies as he threw them. And that was just me, imagine a group of 2-3 engis who know to shoot stickies.

Fuck you Valve, fix this quick pl0x.

Yeah I was worried the stickies would be broken like this.  I think the dispenser bit is sort of cool though, in that now it makes it actually important to destroy them.  And I did always think it was dumb that two rockets of splash damage could kill an engie easily, when the sentry should be mitigating some of that.  The healing rate is too high if it's at a medic level though, it shouldn't be a stand in for a class.

Anyways, I'm sure some of this will be dialed back in a week or so like the Backburner.

[Loqutus]

Holy hell, I can't believe they buffed the spy like that.... I would still rather have my "spy gets medic speed while cloaked" idea, but I see this as a viable alternative.

That engi update does... hmm... NOTHING for my offensive engi, so I am less than excited about that.

Excuse me while I go cloak forever with my new ammo boxes.

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Haven't had a chance to give this a go yet.  Initial reactions are positive for spy buffs.  Still annoyed that they didn't fix backstab problems, but extended cloak posibilities are good.  looking for conf that ammo boxes give cloak.  Not thrilled about the dispenser upgrades.  I think it was fine as is.  But again, I'll have to see how this plays when I get some time.  Not sure how I feel about the demo nerf.  This shouldn't decrease viability of uber demo though, I don't think.  It's just that he'll have to det each set rather than drop 8 stickies.  It'll also make walking past a crit sticky possible.  (Dustbowl, I'm looking at you...)

[Ianki]

I haven't played the update, and too busy for the next month to give it a try but:

"Any weapons that fire bullets (shotguns, sniper's machine gun, heavy's minigun, etc.) can now break apart the Demoman's stickybombs"

Bad news for Demo's,  there are plenty of ways to fix win bombs, but this might not be one of them.  It does force demos to be a lot more creative in where they place them.

"The icon on the HUD for a person calling for Medic will now give more information to the medic (if the target is low on health, on fire, etc.)"

Thank fucking god, now i wont be pulled back towards spawn on a push by someone with an itchy index finger.

[CaffeinePowered]

"Any weapons that fire bullets (shotguns, sniper's machine gun, heavy's minigun, etc.) can now break apart the Demoman's stickybombs"

Bad news for Demo's,  there are plenty of ways to fix win bombs, but this might not be one of them.  It does force demos to be a lot more creative in where they place them.

This used to be in all TF games, but it was an engineer's special ability. This is something that needed to happen, pushing them around, especially if there is only a crit tends to do absolutely nothing, especially in tight corridors.

We'll see how it plays out

[ToiletDuck]

Update is horrid. I watched an uber wreck a sentry on dustbowl, and because they missed the level 3 dispenser, the engi had a sentry up within 15 seconds, no joke. If they had made this some sort of weapon replacement and nerfed it a bit, sure. If they had made dispensers upgradeable armor but no MEDIC SPEED HEALING and metal out the ass, sure. But the dispenser is now helping any engi with half a brain cell become almost unstoppable. Splash damage doesn't even hurt the engi enough with the permanent medic heal to kill him ever, and paired with the shit ass demo nerf of shooting stickies, it's getting ridiculous. The same uber demo could not kill my sentry because I shot his stickies as he threw them. And that was just me, imagine a group of 2-3 engis who know to shoot stickies.

Fuck you Valve, fix this quick pl0x.

weird, i never have problems taking out shit with pipe bombs (wai leeter tbh). good luck shooting those out of the way :'(

[Dave]

Minigun > demos

do the stickies break apart if you hit them midair?

[CaffeinePowered]

Minigun > demos

do the stickies break apart if you hit them midair?

I would guess no, otherwise Id call that a class breaking nerf, also do stickies break on the first shot or is it more of a you have to shoot it a few times thing?

[x]

I would guess no, otherwise Id call that a class breaking nerf, also do stickies break on the first shot or is it more of a you have to shoot it a few times thing?

I've heard one hit. People are moaning already that an errant shot does the job.

[ScottyGrayskull]

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1960.msg54897#msg54897 date=1229089710]
I would guess no, otherwise Id call that a class breaking nerf, also do stickies break on the first shot or is it more of a you have to shoot it a few times thing?

I've heard one hit. People are moaning already that an errant shot does the job.
[/quote]

At the risk of sounding unpopular with all the demomen out there, would that just mean they can't lay some stickies and just wait to spring them? Instead now they need to be more aggressive and adaptive with their sticky placement, constantly replacing them as needs change?

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=Arnie's Right Bicep link=topic=1960.msg54898#msg54898 date=1229089886]
[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=1960.msg54897#msg54897 date=1229089710]
I would guess no, otherwise Id call that a class breaking nerf, also do stickies break on the first shot or is it more of a you have to shoot it a few times thing?

I've heard one hit. People are moaning already that an errant shot does the job.
[/quote]

At the risk of sounding unpopular with all the demomen out there, would that just mean they can't lay some stickies and just wait to spring them? Instead now they need to be more aggressive and adaptive with their sticky placement, constantly replacing them as needs change?
[/quote]

Well yes and no, more creative with placement yes, this nerf needed to happen, but they should have some kind of health component, if one errant shotgun pellet pops them that's excessive.

[x]

At the risk of sounding unpopular with all the demomen out there, would that just mean they can't lay some stickies and just wait to spring them? Instead now they need to be more aggressive and adaptive with their sticky placement, constantly replacing them as needs change?

I made the point in IRC but it bears repeating. Stickie traps and the like, while annoying and cheap, were not what made the demoman OP. People have been moaning about him because of the players who actually know how to work to his strengths and use him as an offensive class. The unavoidable mid-air stickie complaint has not been addressed at all by this nerf.

Ain, did you ever consider for a moment, that maybe the soldier is supposed to counter the pyro, sort of like how the pyro counters the spy, the medic counters engineers, and the sniper counters heavies.

How would you feel if next update the spy got a flame retardant jacket so you couldn't lite him on fire anymore.

Relevant quote. This change would appear to have been effected purely to appease whining Engis but the whole point of TF2 is classes cancelling out one another. The Demo is a sentry killer.

[zaneyard]

... playing last night, i had a demo kill my level 3 dispenser in about two gernades..
idk what the fuck you guys are whining about.

[Eschatos]

I saw no reason to make stickies destructible.  Demo was never overpowered, and sticky traps should be a regular part of the game.  You could always just shoot them out of the way. 

[CaffeinePowered]

You could always just shoot them out of the way. 

In a corridor, nope, if you stuck 8 of them in a tight hallway you are fucked, you can knock them down the hall as you advance but the blast radius is such that you are going to get hit no matter what.

[Eschatos]

[quote author=Eschatos link=topic=1960.msg54930#msg54930 date=1229100178]
You could always just shoot them out of the way. 

In a corridor, nope, if you stuck 8 of them in a tight hallway you are fucked, you can knock them down the hall as you advance but the blast radius is such that you are going to get hit no matter what.
[/quote]

Any decently designed map will have more than one route to anywhere important, ubers can easily get past stickies, and if the demoman isn't around you can just walk over them.  If he is around then shoot him.