Neat stuff (non-lulz but interesting things)

[rumbot]

he also calls himself a "responsible journalist" in this.

[KarthXLR]

[quote author=Karth link=topic=1507.msg274809#msg274809 date=1388095281]
Really good video about the industry of games, I highly recommend checking out this guys other videos.

Why do I ever listen to your recommendations? The first two minutes are an overly dramatic drone without making any substantive point, other than he didn't like 3 games, but refused to say why. You can say a hell of a lot of things negative about Bioshock Infinite and GTAV, but you can't say "they didn't take a whole lot of risks and they weren't very creative designs."

RISKS:
-Infinite some of the most racially and religiously incendiary content of any video game this side of Custer's Revenge.
-GTAV some of the most biting commentary of our surveillance state, the war on terror, and government corruption

DESIGN
-Infinite: Columbia is one of the most gorgeous backdrops ever designed. Add some of the most creative uses of music.
-GTAV creates an entire world of mock brands, from facebook to dasani to scientology, all instantly recognizable but yet subversively different. The cars alone are fun jokes for any car fan, the music channels and famous celebrity DJs delight music fans. The fake facebook page was a riot how it evolved when the game progressed. Show me who else integrated 3 interdependent story arcs in a sandbox game framework.

Only interesting piece of the video was about Papers Please, which I'd not heard much of.
[/quote]
I'm glad to hear your against it and have an argument for why the games are not , but that's not really what the point of the segment is about. It's more over that these games, while having stories that try something new, take precedence over the gameplay which almost always suffers due to it. I haven't played GTAV, but I can assure you that both The Last of Us and Infinite are nothing new from an interactive standpoint. They have the opportunity to try something really neat but instead play it safe with mechanics that have been done before or straight-up taken from the last entry in the series. Whether or not the stories work has been a source of debate that's lasted for way too long.

But I can't even fathom why you wouldn't be interested by the latter half of the video involving the industry in-general as well as the consequences that happened because of that. The industry is changing due to crowdsourcing and early-access, business models that didn't seem to exist last year. These type of things have never been done as much as it has been in the last 2 months, much less 10 years ago. The games media segment is even more interesting, considering all the controversy with the Xbox One, the scandal after scandal with reviewers and gaming news sites, the desperation of reviewers to cling to a game to "validate" their passion as an art form, and the upcoming games of next year.

[KarthXLR]

Holy shit I don't even know how to tackle this.

He worries deeply about the VGX awards. Jesus, that's like the first TV shows fretting about not getting good radio reviews.

Why wouldn't you? It's easily the largest public gaming event of the year aside from E3 and it's being run by buffoons who don't have the interests of all gamers at heart, instead relying on public input. They could very easily make a panel of judges who are veterans in the industry; coders, programmers, directors, graphic and level designers, but they don't! Instead they pull the same shit they've done every year and try to appeal to the lowest common denominator with no glances past face value.

Here's a very specific example of what I mean, and I've watched this 3 times now trying to find some redeeming value. @ 9 minute mark he slags on the Verge, saying

"Polygon's own self-congratulatory documentary was revealed to be sponsored by microsoft" [SO WHAT?]

I'd say that's a pretty big concern considering microsoft had a new console on the way, as well as a considerable amount of bad rep to its name at the time.

"While the content of the site itself has slope downwards to a level of unreasonable hyperbole" [CITATION NEEDED] "and a very visible streak of arrogance." [the video highlights a quote about the bf lauch on ps4 that doesn't demonstrate how the verge is arrogant.]

You're right on this one, an opinion without an argument.

mo4r bullshit, @10:49, this guy says "Spike is a cable TV network that's an undeserving bigger brand than anything else gaming has to work with."

REALLY?

It's not so much the viewership as it is the demographics and showmanship.

another gem: "TVs are directly competing with video games for people's recreational time." yeah, I spend a lot of time debating whether to farm Onyxia or watch another ep of the Bachelorette.

You are not everyone. I know plenty of people who do watch an episode of cops after playing Xbox or my friend who watches Duck Dynasty after a round of Halo. At the same time, I know plenty of people who don't watch TV at all. Admittedly, this is a point that needs some hard evidence or some better wording.

[spm201]

He sighs a lot. He eyerolls a lot. He inflects a lot. He likes to overly emphasize DIFFERENT words to add interpretive value.

Ok man, if you're going to stage an argument, at least do it effectively. You're sitting somewhere around tier 2 here.

[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Graham's_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg[/img]

Not offering anything insightful or transcendent commentary.

This is a summary, not a thesis paper. It's not meant to be a deep look, but give a wide range of information in a short amount of time, and I, for one, found it very informative.

He worries deeply about the VGX awards. Jesus, that's like the first TV shows fretting about not getting good radio reviews.

Yeah every gamer knows that the VGX is a joke. Now take a moment to think about that. I have never met a gamer who took these seriously. Is that ok? That, what is supposed to be the biggest gaming award of the year is universally recognized as a sham? I'd say we deserve better and recognizing it, rather than accepting it, is a start.

"Polygon's own self-congratulatory documentary was revealed to be sponsored by microsoft" [SO WHAT?]

So what? Is it ok that IGN runs on a pay-for-good-reviews scale? No? Then why is this ok?

He engages in the same type of hyperbolic shit that he's flinging at games. He offers no quotes, no citations, no context for his very abstract swipes.

Again, this is simply a summary, not analysis. He simply offering his opinion, and the only quotes he needs to back that up are his own.

[rumbot]

Ok man, if you're going to stage an argument, at least do it effectively.

Again, this is simply a summary, not analysis. He simply offering his opinion, and the only quotes he needs to back that up are his own.

There's some irony here, and you shouldn't have to strain your eyes to see it.

[rumbot]

I'd say that's a pretty big concern considering microsoft had a new console on the way, as well as a considerable amount of bad rep to its name at the time.

Considering he monetizes his youtube commentary on video games, he's a competitor to Polygon. He has his own monetary interest in perpetuating any threat to their credibility.

I haven't played GTAV, but I can assure you that both The Last of Us and Infinite are nothing new from an interactive standpoint. They have the opportunity to try something really neat but instead play it safe with mechanics that have been done before or straight-up taken from the last entry in the series. Whether or not the stories work has been a source of debate that's lasted for way too long.

Emphasis added for where you are adding "interactive standpoint" that he didn't. He was talking about the game as a whole, and not focusing on whether it broke new ground with gameplay (i quoted it earlier). Shit, should no Western ever win another Oscar just because all the ground in Westerns has been covered? Nope, still possible to have a great script and great cinematics while relying on some tried and true formulas.

Also, it's disingenuous to say there was "nothing new" in infinite. The sky hooks were completely new, and fun mechanic, leading to a combination of the on-rails shooter genre with the traditional FPS.

[Squishy3]

[KarthXLR]

Considering he monetizes his youtube commentary on video games, he's a competitor to Polygon. He has his own monetary interest in perpetuating any threat to their credibility.

Oh please rummy. Polygon is a sister news and gaming media site, it operates on a whole other level than SuperBunnyHop does on youtube. Let's do some math, shall we?

Youtube, for partnered channels, pays about $5 per 1000 ad views. Now, just for simplicity's sake, let's assume no one has any sort of ad-blocking extension on their computer. It's a bit difficult to find an average "view" per month on SuperBunnyHop's channel because his viewership seems to come and go. His largest pieces have been 110k views and 61k each, but it's hard to tell when all those views were accounted for. If they were all in the month that it premiered, he's looking a couple hundred dollars per video. But on average, his videos seem to get between 2k-10k views, and at only 5-6 videos a month, that's an absolute maximum of $300, something I make in 2 weeks of a no-effort minimum wage job.

[rumbot]

You can save the patronizing "oh please" when you have something to teach me.

Just because the math scales differently, doesn't mean that folks shouldn't be transparent about their conflicts of interest.

Microsoft's role in funding Polygon was well publicized in Forbes when they launched. They've not exactly tried to hide that relationship. Now, if you or Bunnyhop or spm want to call them a shill, fine. I can agree with that, and you don't have to read them.

Doesn't matter whether he makes $1000 a week or one cent. It's clear he wants to make a career in game journalism. I bet if a major publisher wanted to pay him a nice salary to work for them he would. And if he's going to do that, he should learn to substantiate his arguments.

But Bunnyhop, since he's in the same business looks like a hypocrite for pointing out someone has a financial incentive to skew reporting if he doesn't come clean about his own financial incentives. It's called conflict of interest disclosures, and it's pretty standard among ethical professionals. And look, I said "disclosed," which is what polygon does on youtube by saying that the vids are "presented by IE." You can say "reported" since forbes reported. But no, Bunnyhop says, "Polygon's own self-congratulatory documentary was revealed to be sponsored by Microsoft." Revealed? Unless I've missed some reporting on this story, that's a mischaracterization of the record. Gee, why would he want to mislead me?

The fact that he doesn't disclose undermines his credibility. Using provocative wording like "revealed" without substantiating that allegation undermines his credibility. Going over-the-top with his unsubstantiated opinions about the games he reviews in the first segment also undermines his credibility.

Look, I've checked out his videos, I'm open to being convinced of his opinions, but as I've said he doesn't really articulate them. And it's not like these are tweets, it's a full 15 minute audio visual production that he spent some hours on.

Whatever he's trying to communicate is not coming across crisply, and at the same time he's undermining my trust in him. If you don't see those as flaws then we shall have to agree to differ. As I said,

But he doesn't really articulate what he's thinking. And if he can't do that, then he's just sending dogwhistles the the people who already believe what he believes and is not offering anything insightful or transcendent commentary.

[Didzo]

I'd listen to a podcast featuring Rummy and Karth with Kor as host.

[KarthXLR]

Whatever he's trying to communicate is not coming across crisply, and at the same time he's undermining my trust in him. If you don't see those as flaws then we shall have to agree to differ.

I suppose so. Thanks for articulating even though you don't think he did.

[Goffin]

you could've solved cancer with this amount of brain storming regarding video games commentaries.    

[Kor]

I'd listen to a podcast featuring Rummy and Karth with Kor as host.

Good Evening, Good Afternoon, and Good Morning. I'm you're host, Kor. Welcome to Capturing the Point, a gaming/editorial podcast dedicated to the fine art of [splitting hairs and custom-made soapboxes]. Please join me in welcoming two [gentlecunts] of [questionable ethics], Karth and Rummy.

Everything in brackets can be replaced with an assortment of tongue-in-cheek jokes.

I'll be in my trailer.

[spm201]

you could've solved cancer with this amount of brain storming regarding video games commentaries.    

I think we care more about this though

Good Evening, Good Afternoon, and Good Morning. I'm you're host, Kor. Welcome to Capturing the Point, a gaming/editorial podcast dedicated to the fine art of [splitting hairs and custom-made soapboxes]. Please join me in welcoming two [gentlecunts] of [questionable ethics], Karth and Rummy.

Everything in brackets can be replaced with an assortment of tongue-in-cheek jokes.

I'll be in my trailer.

I would pay.

[rumbot]

Excuse me, that's a bespoke artisanal soapbox by a company incorporated in Pennsylvania but built in California where the demand is greater for that sort of thing.

[rumbot]

also, spm, karth, why don't you guys just create a yelp for game reviews and smash the system.

the wisdom of crowds is replacing the wisdom of the few in travel, accommodations, food, commodities (amazon) etc. if you let the platform let some prolific users link to their longer text or video reviews (like bunnyhop, etc) you'd gain their participation and give them greater visibility.

exit strategy: get bought by valve for steam.

[Squishy3]

http://gfycat.com/about

MAN HTML5 IS FUCKING AWESOME

[spm201]

also, spm, karth, why don't you guys just create a yelp for game reviews and smash the system.

If I thought that I could count on the masses to put up a decent game review, I would. Unfortunately, I am pretty pessimistic on the capability of people as a whole. Not an awful idea though. Could see this happening very soon.

[CaffeinePowered]

Unfortunately, I am pretty pessimistic on the capability of people as a whole. Not an awful idea though. Could see this happening very soon.

You average it out over hundreds of reviews and it comes out to be pretty well...

[Duck, Duck, Goose]

http://gfycat.com/about

MAN HTML5 IS FUCKING AWESOME

Saw this the other day, pretty awesome.