Inception discussion - Don't click if you haven't seen

[Surf314]

My theory is that Cobb was the actual inception target. I just found it too convenient that everything about his last job hinged on him getting over his guilt. Everything led to that point and Ariadne seemed to have a very purposeful and pivotal role in it. Like she was the architect of his epiphany. Also our friend said that song they kept playing to clue people in on the timing was a french song that meant "no regrets."

But my wife was very angry at that interpretation because she thinks it cheapens his healing. I don't, but the way we interpret it really seems to hinge on our ideas of reality and happiness. I think people can be happy within their own reality and you can't really judge that. And it doesn't matter to me if that reality is generated by you or someone else. I also think that the mark was better off for being incepted.

[Squishy3]

Then it could be very well that his wife never died and they just wanted him to think she did. It may be that the whole movie was him being incepted because he was really the world's best protector against deception or inception (instead of being the best thief) so a bunch of baddies/goodies wanted him out of the picture by keeping him content inside his mind?

I don't know, there are so many different ways you can interpret the story that I'm not even going to continue on after this one.

[Chief]

Ugh, that movie was so confusing at the end I don't even know.

Personally if it was about Cobb then the ending would have made more sense than I believe it did.


What confuses me the most is how Miles (Caine) was there at the end even though he should have been in Paris, a teacher on architecture. It's how he somehow conveniently goes through all three levels with seemingly no 'kicks' and then Miles being there to take him to his children that leaves me to believe that he is stuck in a dream from the powerful drug The Chemist was providing him with earlier.

[Surf314]

I think he purposeful left several interpretations, here are the main ones. Remember the main danger from dreaming like this is time dilation, because the time you spend in a dream can multiply exponentially seconds of dreaming could be years. You eventually wake up but your mind is gone from having spent so much time not in reality.

1) Everything happened as is, the wobble in the top signaled it was about to fall. He just teased you by cutting away to make you question reality in the same way Cobb's wife did.

2) Everything happened within a dream, Mol was right and escaped the dream but Cobb is still dreaming. He will eventually wake up but his mind might be gone from spending too much time in a dream.

3) Cobb is broken from Mol's death and can no longer be a proper father or a proper dream agent. Someone wanted to fix him either for altruistic reasons or to make him whole again so he could do a job. The evidence I have for this is in the beginning when Syto said it was a test and he had failed. He failed because of Mol. Therefore if Syto wanted to use him for a job he would want him to come to terms with his guilt and stop bringing Mol to sabotage all his jobs. After that job he is led to Ariadne who seems determined to find out why he is broken and lead him to fixing it. Then people start coming after him similar to being in a dream. So maybe the very beginning is the only part that happens in reality. Besides the song being "no regrets" another clue I have to this is Ariadne's name. She is the daughter of King Minos who helped Theseus through the labyrinth. She is also known as "the mistress of the labyrinth."

You can tell which one I think it is 

[Chief]

Here you go Surf: http://chud.com/articles/articles/24477/...Page1.html

[KarthXLR]

I liked this movie and am too lazy to go into detail about it.

[Didzo]

The entire movie is a self-contained loop.

[Surf314]

The entire movie is a self-contained loop.

It's a mobius strip!

[Totla]

The whole movie is in a dream to fix Cobb, but that dream was in another dream that was to train the girl to incept ideas so they could bring her on the team.
The beginning of the movie is real, but from the first time she goes under, she's always in at least one layer of dreams.

[Surf314]

The whole movie is in a dream to fix Cobb, but that dream was in another dream that was to train the girl to incept ideas so they could bring her on the team.
The beginning of the movie is real, but from the first time she goes under, she's always in at least one layer of dreams.

Yea this is kinda how I feel as far as the reality/dream split. If it happens it happens when she first goes under. Notice right after he spins the top in a bathroom and it falls off the sink? I don't think the whole thing was a dream though, that just seems a bit too cheap.

[Didzo]

[Surf314]

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/inception-comic.html

[Duck, Duck, Goose]

http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/inception-comic.html

I want more.

[Black Aspen]

Seeing it tonight at 8pm.  Discussion to follow.

[Luinbariel]

In my opinion, the entire thing is in Cobb's limbo. It's like following his memory of what happened last, in this case bringing back Syto, which then lead to the memory of how he got there in the first place (the scenes in Syto's dreams as they try to get whatever from him), etc etc. From there it's just a loop, as though he never left.

It seems to me that the point at which he brings back old Syto (the start of the movie) is the point at which he enters limbo for the second time (since he is there to help Saito remember that he is dreaming, but there is no one there to do a similar thing/kick for Cobb and so he stays in limbo), and the point at which we begin to see his memories in his limbo about how he even got to that point.

Does that make sense? It seems like a mouthful, but still.



Also, it seems as though I may have done a similar thing in the past (only nowhere near as complicated, without drugs, and accidentally).

[Surf314]

In my opinion, the entire thing is in Cobb's limbo. It's like following his memory of what happened last, in this case bringing back Syto, which then lead to the memory of how he got there in the first place (the scenes in Syto's dreams as they try to get whatever from him), etc etc. From there it's just a loop, as though he never left.

It seems to me that the point at which he brings back old Syto (the start of the movie) is the point at which he enters limbo for the second time (since he is there to help Saito remember that he is dreaming, but there is no one there to do a similar thing/kick for Cobb and so he stays in limbo), and the point at which we begin to see his memories in his limbo about how he even got to that point.

Does that make sense? It seems like a mouthful, but still.



Also, it seems as though I may have done a similar thing in the past (only nowhere near as complicated, without drugs, and accidentally).

You just blew my mind. It is kinda like a mobius strip.

[Luinbariel]

[quote author=Luinbariel link=topic=4820.msg166044#msg166044 date=1280039731]
In my opinion, the entire thing is in Cobb's limbo. It's like following his memory of what happened last, in this case bringing back Syto, which then lead to the memory of how he got there in the first place (the scenes in Syto's dreams as they try to get whatever from him), etc etc. From there it's just a loop, as though he never left.

It seems to me that the point at which he brings back old Syto (the start of the movie) is the point at which he enters limbo for the second time (since he is there to help Saito remember that he is dreaming, but there is no one there to do a similar thing/kick for Cobb and so he stays in limbo), and the point at which we begin to see his memories in his limbo about how he even got to that point.

Does that make sense? It seems like a mouthful, but still.





Also, it seems as though I may have done a similar thing in the past (only nowhere near as complicated, without drugs, and accidentally).

You just blew my mind. It is kinda like a mobius strip.
[/quote]


It kind of is. Cobb and Saito (I spelled it wrong the first time, should have known) are the only two who go into that many levels of dreaming. Saito is in limbo and cobb follows him; how do you do that? You die in the dream (because of the sedation). So when he went after Saito the last time, he didn't just put himself under again, he couldn't have. He would have had to die (remember, his wife stabbed him mortally before he stopped her).  So, Cobb dies and follows Saito into limbo. He pulls Saito out (remember at least once, Saito reaches for the gun, but he is also aware now of what happened and is thusly able to come out of limbo) but there is no one to get Cobb back.

So, the entire dream is in Cobb's limbo, or so I think.


Actually, he couldn't have followed Saito into limbo, since limbo is personal and your own subconscious (I think?). So maybe he never actually saved him at all. Still, since we followed Cobb down into HIS limbo, Cobb would think he did and thus we would see what we saw and get the circular movie that we got.




Also, about what I meant when I said I may have done something like this:  A long time ago I had a penpal online to whom I was very close. She and I were practically sisters, and at the time I actually considered her more of a sister than my ACTUAL sister. We had never met and I had only ever seen the school picture of herself that she'd sent me.

One day she told me that her brother had died, and that she couldn't sleep because she was having terrible nightmares about him. I felt really bad for her and said that I would try and dream her dreams for her. I don't know why I said that or how I would do it, but I just really wanted her to relax and rest easy, so I said it. We both signed off and went to bed.

That night I dreamt of a place I'd never seen, and people I didn't know. It wasn't quite like my usual dreams, and when I told her about what and who I saw the next morning, she said I'd seen the house where she'd grown up, her mother who had been dead ever since she was a child, their dead childhood pet, AND her dead brother. I had never seen them and she had never even talked about them with me, since she didn't like to.

Needless to say we were both a bit freaked out, but I was able to give her good news or at least peace of mind, and she slept well after that. Who knows what, if anything, really happened after that but I've never forgotten it. I've since met her in person as well, and though we don't get to talk as much anymore, we're still very close.

[Didzo]

Also, about what I meant when I said I may have done something like this:   A long time ago I had a penpal online to whom I was very close. She and I were practically sisters, and at the time I actually considered her more of a sister than my ACTUAL sister. We had never met and I had only ever seen the school picture of herself that she'd sent me.

One day she told me that her brother had died, and that she couldn't sleep because she was having terrible nightmares about him. I felt really bad for her and said that I would try and dream her dreams for her. I don't know why I said that or how I would do it, but I just really wanted her to relax and rest easy, so I said it. We both signed off and went to bed.

That night I dreamt of a place I'd never seen, and people I didn't know. It wasn't quite like my usual dreams, and when I told her about what and who I saw the next morning, she said I'd seen the house where she'd grown up, her mother who had been dead ever since she was a child, their dead childhood pet, AND her dead brother. I had never seen them and she had never even talked about them with me, since she didn't like to.

Needless to say we were both a bit freaked out, but I was able to give her good news or at least peace of mind, and she slept well after that. Who knows what, if anything, really happened after that but I've never forgotten it. I've since met her in person as well, and though we don't get to talk as much anymore, we're still very close.

Luin being a cat makes perfect sense now.

[Luinbariel]

I don't get it.

[Squishy3]

It's said in the movie after Fischer gets shot by Mol that it's unconstructed dreamspace unless someone else who is sharing the dream has gone into limbo, which Cobb has.