SMG Info

[grin]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?...utput=html

[Kor]

If I'm reading the sheet right, there's absolutely zero advantage outside of bullet drop on the VS SMG. Even the damage seems heavy skewed.

[grin]

Based on data file extraction by Stormfrog on /r/planetside
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comme...smg_stats/
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?...utput=html

Mods available:
Soft point ammo
Compensator
Flash suppressor
suppressor (does not appear to suppress noise yet)
1x, 2x, IR/NV, 3.4x, 4x optics
Extended mag(+10 bullets, it works atm)
Flashlight
Laser dot
Advanced Laser dot

I personally purchased this weapon for my Infiltrator so my first comparison was against the Artemis full-auto.

SX5:
+5 more rounds default(+15 E-mag)
Greater Damage per mag:
3575(5005 E-mag) vs 2860 at max damage
2275(3125 E-mag) vs 2240 at min damage
Greater damage per minute at all ranges(inc. Reloads, see DPM graph below):
1.75s vs 2.25s short reload time
.05 vs .1 ADS COF Bloom
750 vs 652 RPM
Out damages Artemis out to 22m(24m with SP, see DPS graph below)
0.2 vs 0.3 vertical recoil
Asymmetric recoil(no foregrip needed)
2.0 vs 2.5 First shot reoil Multiplier
.75 vs .5 ADS move speed
1 vs 3 Stand Still Hip COF min
1.5 vs 3.5 Stand move Hip COF min
1 vs 2.5 crouch Still Hip COF min
1.25 vs 3 crouch move Hip COF min

Artemis:
143dmg @ 10m vs 143dmg @ 6m
112dmg @ 115m vs 91dmg @ 43m
500m/s 360m/s
0.1 vs 0.4 Stand Still ADS COF min
0.25 vs 0.4 Stand move ADS COF min
0.1 vs 0.4 Stand Still ADS COF min
0.15 vs 0.4 Stand move ADS COF min

In addition to these stats I tested the damage degradation in game and came to the following information.
SX-5 Outputs 143dmg per shot up to ~6m and degrade linearly to 91dmg per shot at ~43m.
I graphed the damage, Perfect DPS and Perfect damage per minute(DPM including short Reload time) over distance along side some popular Vanu weapons.

DMG - Damage per Bullet
http://tinyurl.com/bmuxtvg

Comments: Per bullet damage on the SX5 Degrades extremely rapidly compared to other Vanu weapons. The SX5 can quickly require 10-12 bullets to kill a non nanoweave or heavy shielded enemy.

DPS - IDEAL DPS based on 100% accuracy
http://tinyurl.com/besasjt

Comments: SX5 Ideal DPS is not too bad in the short range, and stays decent out to about 24m with SP ammo.

DPM - IDEAL Damage per minute based on 100% accuracy and only short reloads
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/7442/smgdpm.png

Comments: As you can see when bullet damage, ROF, reload time, and mag size are accounted for the SX5 is competitive or better than many popular weapons under 14-18m. With Extended mag and/or SP ammo the SX5 is in the top tier DPM in the 10-16m range and remains competitive for another 20m or so. This graph also demonstrates one of the reasons why the Artemis seems lackluster to many. It is not just sub par, it is alone in the lowest class of DPM weapons.

Personal Opinions:
Unlike many other weapons Soft point ammo does not have as detrimental an effect as it does on other weapons. Because this weapon has a shorter maximum damage range(6m compared to 10m) than other weapons, the additional range from SP is much more noticeable. And because it already has a severe damage degradation slope, the additional damage loss at range isn't as readily noticeable.

For the ranges and purposes that I use the Artemis, I don't see any real reason to not use the SX-5. Especially if you consider the Ideal DPS and DPM of the Artemis and SX5.

However for any class but the Infiltrator there already exist superior CQC weapons, IE the VX6-7 or Serpent for LA/Eng, the HV-45 for Medic, the Orion for Heavy. These weapons will perform as well or better than the SX5 in nearly every situation.

There is one caveat to the above opinion. If you do not own any CQC weapons yet, you can essentially purchase a very effective CQC weapon for EVERY class by getting the SX5. While I think that the other CQC weapons are better, you must purchase one for each class. You could be nearly as effective with every class using only the SX5.

[Kor]

Brilliant work as always Grin.

[at0m]

I just want the silencer to work so I can run around with a TMP. Classic CS represent.

[grin]

I just want the silencer to work so I can run around with a TMP. Classic CS represent.

Hopefully they get that working soon :[

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

So long story short, SMGs aren't worth it unless you need a CQC weapon for an infil.

[KorJax]

Karrde link=topic=6754.msg261379#msg261379 date=1359910839]
So long story short, SMGs aren't worth it unless you need a CQC weapon for an infil.

... but they do have the very good advantage of working for every single class once you unlock it (right?). So it's a great way to get an extra gun to use for every class, and whatever you are using for another class might not have the same CQC benefit as the default gun (if there is such a thing).

Thank you grin, BRB.U's resident R&D technician

[[fr31ns]Karrde]

Engi runs VX6-7, so does LA when I'm not using Nova, I don't play medic, Heavy runs Orion/Pulsar LSW depending on situation and I tend to just snipe as infil.

[at0m]

Then there's no point for you.

I play run&gun when i'm infil, so I dig it a LOT. Also, don't want to have to buy and think about/get unlocks for a CQC gun for each of my other classes, so this is a nice comprimise.

[grin]

[quote author=[fr31ns]Karrde link=topic=6754.msg261379#msg261379 date=1359910839]
So long story short, SMGs aren't worth it unless you need a CQC weapon for an infil.

... but they do have the very good advantage of working for every single class once you unlock it (right?). So it's a great way to get an extra gun to use for every class, and whatever you are using for another class might not have the same CQC benefit as the default gun (if there is such a thing).

Thank you grin, BRB.U's resident R&D technician
[/quote]

This is true. If you haven't invested in any CQC guns, then the SMG is actually quite nice. It gives you a very decent CQC option for every class. The main limitation is that you are trading effectiveness at range. Mostly you are just LESS effective at range, while not being useless.

Also, I added the NC and TR ones for comparison.
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4165/...arison.png


http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2494/smgd...arison.png


DPS and Damage over distance are as expected.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9610/sm...onmany.png


Interestingly the DPM plot shows that the 3 SMG's vary by about 5000 damage.
NC have the highest DPM at 62k-70k(e-mag)
VS in the middle with 57k-66k(e-mag)
TR at the bottom with 52k-60k(e-mag)

As you get farther out in range, the difference in DPM becomes much smaller.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2425/sm...ninfil.png


This discrepancy is actually very unusual. If you look below you can see a DPM plot of all the normal infantry weapons.
As you can see, the DPM across a weapon class for one empire is pretty even. Even among an entire class or an entire empire the DPM does not vary much.
The SMG's are wildly outside the norm in this respect. The 5000 DPM difference between empires is pretty much non-existent in any other weapon class.

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/8193/dpmshort.png

[Cineo]

So Far I have the e-mag/suppressor/scope unlocked on the SMG. I was waiting for data to see if soft point was worth it. Based on your data it is. Can you confirm that Grin?

Edit: Based on other info it also appears that it is better to hipfire SMG rather than ADS (in most cases). This lends me to believe that the adv. laser sight might be a better investment than the e-mag. Do you have any data supporting that too grin?

[grin]

So Far I have the e-mag/suppressor/scope unlocked on the SMG. I was waiting for data to see if soft point was worth it. Based on your data it is. Can you confirm that Grin?

Edit: Based on other info it also appears that it is better to hipfire SMG rather than ADS (in most cases). This lends me to believe that the adv. laser sight might be a better investment than the e-mag. Do you have any data supporting that too grin?

I think that SP is worth it on this gun, I use it currently.

It is still MUCH better to ADS with this gun than Hipfire, with the exception of move speed.
ADS Move speed multiplier 0.75
Stand Still/Move ADS 0.4/0.4
Stand Still/Move Hip  1/1.5
Crouch Still/Move ADS 0.4/0.4
Crouch Still/Move Hip 1/1.25

This goes does have worse ADS cof stats than most other guns but compared to it's hip stats, it is still better to ADS. The other big difference is that this gun has much much lower hipfire stats than other guns.

This means that you can hipfire accurately to longer ranges, but there is still a point at which you need to ADS to be efficient. The lasers just increase the range at which you don't need to ADS.

I personally use the E-mag. If you look on the charts you can see that you gain about 9,000 damage per minute with the E-mag. I prefer the versatility of having the extra rounds in the magazine to the Laser. But I haven't tested the laser to see how much better it is.

[Elder]

just a note on your damage per minute graph you have lmg and carbine switched

[grin]

Yeah someone spotted that earlier. Thanks though.

[grin]

LASERS!!!
Tested Laser dot and Advanced Laser dot.

Hipfire reticule comparison:
Used MSpaint to measure pixel width of hipfire reticules.
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5365/...arison.jpg

Comments: Surprisingly both laser and adv. laser have a greater proportional effect when standing and moving than when standing still. Laser Rank I while moving matches the Default Stand still accuracy, and Adv. Laser while moving nearly matches the stand still accuracy of laser I standing still. Apparently Crouching while standing still does nothing, but crouching while moving does improve the Hipfire reticule size over standing while moving.

Summary:
In order from best to worst Hip-fire reticule size
(Crouch Still=Stand Still) > Crouch Move > Stand Move

Hipfire Reticule matched to appropriate distance for headshots:
Unfortunately I didn't test Crouch Moving in this one :[
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2088/...ecompa.jpg

Comments: Laser while Moving is about the same as Default while still. Laser while still is a little better than Adv. laser while moving is not quite as good as Laser while still, but still very respectable. Adv laser while still is pretty darn far.

Summary:
In order from best to worst useful distance
Adv. Laser Still > Laser Still > Adv. Laser Move > (Laser Move=Default Still) > Default Move

Opinion: I doubt anyone would be unhappy with the Adv. Laser. I have to play a bit more to be sure I prefer lasers over E-mag but it's looking good so far.

[at0m]

I can't see why you'd need any more accuracy than the thing already has, honestly. Especially comparing it to the utility of the E-Mag.

[grin]

Just the 25% boost in movement speed mostly. Which is arguably powerful

[at0m]

Looking at it that way, makes sense.

[grin]

You don't lose any longevity, you just exchange some effective DPS for some survivability.

Also Infil Weapon Characteristic Comparison Charts! (IWC^3)

I graphed many useful stats of weapons for side by side comparison.
In the case of bolt actions, there are a few untested values that are 0(zero) for now.
To make everything fit into a comfortably readable scale, I had to use multipliers on some values to make them fit.
The multiplier means that the Actual value is not to scale, but the Relative value to the other weapons IS to scale.
For example: Magazine size(100's) means that the actual value is 100 times the value on the scale.
Credit to the good people at ps2.dynet.com for their data extraction.

VS Infil weapons:
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1408/vs...arison.png


NC Infil weapons:
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/8493/...arison.png

TR Infil weapons:
http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/7071/...arison.png