TF Tuesdays 7/29/08

[Budr]

it's gotten to the point where there are plenty of customs that are as good or better than the stock maps.

Bullshit, sir! Name me one custom better than Badlands.

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=999.msg26132#msg26132 date=1217425206]
it's gotten to the point where there are plenty of customs that are as good or better than the stock maps.

Bullshit, sir! Name me one custom better than Badlands.
[/quote]

All of them, even bess_jump

[Scary Womanizing Pig Mask]

I do agree with wedge though that the list should be cleaned up a bit.  I would have suggested roswell because it doesn't seem very popular but I like it =(.

But Roswell is my new favorite map

[Negate]

[quote author=Budr link=topic=999.msg26134#msg26134 date=1217426137]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=999.msg26132#msg26132 date=1217425206]
it's gotten to the point where there are plenty of customs that are as good or better than the stock maps.

Bullshit, sir! Name me one custom better than Badlands.
[/quote]

All of them, even bess_jump
[/quote]
wrong. There is nothing wrong with badlands just because it isn't the same as in TFC doesn't make it a bad map, I personally like well and badlands they can be fun to play.

[Eschatos]

I think we should make an anti-rockthevote button.  We were getting a nice pickup set up on hydro, and some people just wanted to switch.

[Budr]

I think we should make an anti-rockthevote button.  We were getting a nice pickup set up on hydro, and some people just wanted to switch.

It can also be a problem when seeding. Repeatedly switching maps invariably makes any pubs leave and yet some people just act like such little bitches and keep RTVing. If the server only has half a dozen people playing, that is the reason we're playing 2fort so at least let it play out a round or two. Also, people seem not to realise how unbalanced Goldrush and Dbowl are in small numbers. Playing defence on a 3v3 is just not fun. Unless the other team are complete fuckwits you cannot even put up a fight. I've given up seeding before when I've been outnumbered and regs refuse to switch off Blu. Fucking take one for the team.

[Surf314]

I wonder if you could set limiters for rocking the vote, like a minimum time played on each map or limited amount of times you could do it in a row.  Also I'm assuming admins can cancel RTV, I just don't know how.

[Budr]

Also I'm assuming admins can cancel RTV, I just don't know how.

Interesting. I never even thought to try cancelling it like a normal vote.

[CaffeinePowered]

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=999.msg26135#msg26135 date=1217426233]
[quote author=Budr link=topic=999.msg26134#msg26134 date=1217426137]
[quote author=Surf314 link=topic=999.msg26132#msg26132 date=1217425206]
it's gotten to the point where there are plenty of customs that are as good or better than the stock maps.

Bullshit, sir! Name me one custom better than Badlands.
[/quote]

All of them, even bess_jump
[/quote]
wrong. There is nothing wrong with badlands just because it isn't the same as in TFC doesn't make it a bad map, I personally like well and badlands they can be fun to play.
[/quote]

You know why I don't like badlands and granary, well its not because its "not like the TFC version" no, its because *HOW* the map plays.

Both Granary and badlands reward the scout rush way too much, this is both a function of the length of the map and the length of the capture timers. Additionally both maps lend themselves to steamrolling way too easily. Once you loose your footing on that middle point its very difficult to get it back unless both teams are completely balanced both class and skill wise. And if it goes back to your last point you can kiss your ass goodbye. A scout just has to breathe on the thing to cap it.

Neither map has any good sentry gun spots on its last two points as well making it even more difficult to stop the offense and get back into the groove, and the spawn time rewards as the attacking team pushes forward are ridiculous. There are absolutely zero SG spots on the final point as well, something both maps desperately need.

Why doesn't cp_well suffer from the same problems?
- SG Spots on point 2/4 actually work
- Better bottlenecks on point 2/4 make it easier to defend
- Its better, but not amazingly better

What about cp_labor, its the same kind of map?
- Good SG positions on both the 4th and 5th points, one engineer can cover *most* but not all of the room
- Map is MUCH shorter, removing most of the advantages of the scout rush
- Longer cap times
- Shorter spawn times
- Better bottlenecks
- Less of a spawn bonus for capping points

I've never seen a team go from being against the wall on point 5 on granary to winning, but its happened many times in pubs of labor that I've played. IMO Labor is everything that granary/badlands *should* have been, but isn't and never can be.

[Eschatos]

Still, I don't get why so many people hate hydro.  It is a good map, and balanced.

[Budr]

Still, I don't get why so many people hate hydro.  It is a good map, and balanced.

Seconded.

Also:

blah blah blah damn kids! When I were a lad playing TFC things were different blah blah blah

[rumsfald]

Also:

[quote author=CaffeinePowered link=topic=999.msg26159#msg26159 date=1217432810]
blah blah blah damn kids! When I were a lad playing Planetside things were different blah blah blah

[/quote]
Also an acceptable answer.

[CaffeinePowered]

Still, I don't get why so many people hate hydro.  It is a good map, and balanced.

Actually, its not, heres whats wrong with hydro

- Unequal defensible positions, because each team has a unique side certain setups will give red/blue an advantage
- Bottlenecks, on many of the maps, theres only one way you can go, funnel everyone into one hallway in 12v12 and the map just breaks down
- Steamrolling vs Stalemate, the map just seems to be one or the other, theres never a continual trade-off of points. Red/Blue will rarely hold their final points and even if they do I have never seen red or blue come back from defending their final point to go all the way to cap the opposing team's final point.

Hydro steamrolling is a good way to empty out a server as people quit in frustration. And constant stalemates aren't fun either.

Hydro IMO isn't as bad as granary or badlands, but its just something that looks better on paper than it plays in practice. There is a beta of a custom TC map floating about, Im going to see if I can snag it for next Tuesday.

[copulatingduck]

Hydro IMO isn't as bad as granary or badlands, but its just something that looks better on paper than it plays in practice. There is a beta of a custom TC map floating about, Im going to see if I can snag it for next Tuesday.

You're wrong! Granary and Badlands are awesome maps, and I've seen both turn around from the last point for a win in pubs before. You just gotta play in the right kind of pubs with crits off.

[Wedge]

Hydro like, could be good in theory, but the portions of the map that are good come up the least.  Instead you just find yourself getting stuck on the retarded one way tunnel maps all the time.  And of course the final caps are nigh indefensible, especially one of them (forget whos).